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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 811 of 5179 (685771)
12-26-2012 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 808 by kofh2u
12-26-2012 2:34 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
What is it I have not sourced???
Everything that is hosted on your tripod.com site.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 808 by kofh2u, posted 12-26-2012 2:34 PM kofh2u has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 812 of 5179 (685778)
12-26-2012 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 802 by kofh2u
12-26-2012 11:32 AM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
Your graph does not say that 70% of black Americans are on welfare (nor does it say that 67% of black Americans are on welfare).
I realise that you prefer to make shit up, and it seems you are unable to make an exception this time.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 802 by kofh2u, posted 12-26-2012 11:32 AM kofh2u has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 813 of 5179 (685792)
12-26-2012 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 808 by kofh2u
12-26-2012 2:34 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
What is it I have not sourced???
My experience with Liberal progressive people educated in the humanities is that their mind is made up and their ego will defend that position in the face of facts and sources because they believe that nothing is so, so clear that their fogging of the issues can not confuse other readers.
They will attack the messenger.
They will attack the sources.
They will facts with feeling they will generate concerning individual cases.
They will attack the motivations of the other side.
They will attack with accusations of racism, misogyny, and evil.
They will also refuse to admit they were wrong, and gang together in a "democratic" ridicule full of anger and hatred for the person if the truth seems to be on his side.
Based on observation, what they mainly do is point out that you're not telling the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 808 by kofh2u, posted 12-26-2012 2:34 PM kofh2u has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 814 of 5179 (685814)
12-27-2012 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 804 by kofh2u
12-26-2012 12:51 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
But the point I make is that inner city Blacks kill half of all peoploe murdered in the USA when the whole Black community represents only @10% of the population.
Let's say that were absolutely true. Now what?
Poor people tend to be more violent and find alternative means to support themselves. Without strict gun control you've also armed them too. Does that make sense to you?
So I'll ask you what you suggest we do, as a nation?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 804 by kofh2u, posted 12-26-2012 12:51 PM kofh2u has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 815 by crashfrog, posted 12-27-2012 1:58 PM onifre has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 815 of 5179 (685825)
12-27-2012 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 814 by onifre
12-27-2012 11:58 AM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
So I'll ask you what you suggest we do, as a nation?
Well, obviously, we should deny law-abiders the tools they need to participate in their own defense while not making any effective effort to seize arms from criminals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 814 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 11:58 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 816 by Percy, posted 12-27-2012 3:05 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 817 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 3:25 PM crashfrog has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 816 of 5179 (685831)
12-27-2012 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 815 by crashfrog
12-27-2012 1:58 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
crashfrog writes:
Well, obviously, we should deny law-abiders the tools they need to participate in their own defense while not making any effective effort to seize arms from criminals.
I'm sure everyone here, regardless of their position on gun control, is an favor of law enforcement making an "effective effort to seize arms from criminals." But how do criminals acquire guns in the first place? According to Mayors Against Illegal Guns more than a half million guns are stolen each year:
  • Guns stolen from homes: Almost 600,000 guns are stolen each year from private homes, according to poll data on gun-owning households.
So one effective way of reducing criminals' access to guns would be to take them away from everyone else. This would also reduce the number of gun-related incidents of all types.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 815 by crashfrog, posted 12-27-2012 1:58 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 818 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2012 3:26 PM Percy has replied
 Message 827 by crashfrog, posted 12-27-2012 4:41 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 817 of 5179 (685834)
12-27-2012 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 815 by crashfrog
12-27-2012 1:58 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
Well, obviously, we should deny law-abiders the tools they need to participate in their own defense
Yeah, I'm all for that. Not the point I was trying to convey in my previous post but, sure, citizens should NOT take the law into their own hands.
However, I'm not for the removal of ALL guns. I enjoy duck hunting and I'm currently getting into deer/hog hunting. So I've always been cool with owning a hunting rifle or shotguns. Both can of course be used for self-defense in your home, and also for the more common use of sport/hunting/target shooting.
I don't support the ownership of concealable handguns or assault rifles. I see no point to them.
...not making any effective effort to seize arms from criminals.
Yeah, I wonder why that is...?
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 815 by crashfrog, posted 12-27-2012 1:58 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 826 by crashfrog, posted 12-27-2012 4:36 PM onifre has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 818 of 5179 (685835)
12-27-2012 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 816 by Percy
12-27-2012 3:05 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
So one effective way of reducing criminals' access to guns would be to take them away from everyone else.
How would that even be possible? I mean, besides just being unconstitutional, how would you go about taking them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by Percy, posted 12-27-2012 3:05 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 819 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 3:46 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 820 by Percy, posted 12-27-2012 3:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 819 of 5179 (685840)
12-27-2012 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 818 by New Cat's Eye
12-27-2012 3:26 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
How would that even be possible?
Criminals aren't walking into stores buying guns, for the most part. They acquire the guns from people who have legally purchased them. If you completely take away their source (ie. gun owners) then in time you reduce the amount of guns the criminals have.
In my opinion, this is only relevant for concealable weapons like handguns, and high casualty weapons like mini assault rifles. I don't really see many criminals walking around with a 30/30.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 818 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2012 3:26 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 821 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2012 4:05 PM onifre has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 820 of 5179 (685841)
12-27-2012 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 818 by New Cat's Eye
12-27-2012 3:26 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
Catholic Scientist writes:
How would that even be possible? I mean, besides just being unconstitutional, how would you go about taking them?
We just follow the instructions on their bumper stickers and pry them out of their cold dead hands.
Seriously, it's too early to begin considering concrete proposals for removing guns from circulation. We don't have the resolve, nor even a consensus interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Maybe a constitutional amendment is necessary first.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 818 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2012 3:26 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 822 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2012 4:06 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 821 of 5179 (685843)
12-27-2012 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 819 by onifre
12-27-2012 3:46 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
Criminals aren't walking into stores buying guns, for the most part. They acquire the guns from people who have legally purchased them. If you completely take away their source (ie. gun owners) then in time you reduce the amount of guns the criminals have.
Sorry, I meant how would it be possible to take The Peoples' guns away?
First off, its unconstitutional. Secondly, yeah, exactly how do you go about taking someone's gun from them? Its not like they're just going to hand it off...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 819 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 3:46 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 823 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 4:10 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 822 of 5179 (685844)
12-27-2012 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 820 by Percy
12-27-2012 3:54 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
Seriously, it's too early to begin considering concrete proposals for removing guns from circulation. We don't have the resolve, nor even a consensus interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Maybe a constitutional amendment is necessary first.
Its seems like such a vacuous statement: "just take away the guns" Get real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 820 by Percy, posted 12-27-2012 3:54 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 823 of 5179 (685845)
12-27-2012 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 821 by New Cat's Eye
12-27-2012 4:05 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
Sorry, I meant how would it be possible to take The Peoples' guns away?
"Take them away" is ridiculous. Making it impossible for you to do anything with it is more likely and not far reaching.
Stop manufacturing handguns and assault rifles, make the sale of them illegal and stop manufactuing ammunition. Eventually you'll just own a worthless hunk of metal.
At least I'm only talking about those two weapons. And it won't deny Americans the right to bear arms. It just limits what you own, and we do that already.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 821 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2012 4:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 824 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-27-2012 4:23 PM onifre has replied
 Message 825 by crashfrog, posted 12-27-2012 4:27 PM onifre has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 824 of 5179 (685846)
12-27-2012 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by onifre
12-27-2012 4:10 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
"Take them away" is ridiculous.
That's what I'm sayin'
Making it impossible for you to do anything with it is more likely and not far reaching.
I think its fairly far reaching...
Stop manufacturing handguns and assault rifles, make the sale of them illegal and stop manufactuing ammunition. Eventually you'll just own a worthless hunk of metal.
Guns can be made privately and ammunition can be refilled.
You're right that eventually it'll run out, but I think you far underestimate how long it would actually take. And I don't think those who would back you are willing to wait many multiple years for the plan to be implemented.
At least I'm only talking about those two weapons. And it won't deny Americans the right to bear arms. It just limits what you own, and we do that already.
Handguns are the best for personal defense. I don't see those going away.
And I've never seen a good defintion of an "Assault Rifle".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 4:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 828 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 5:17 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 825 of 5179 (685847)
12-27-2012 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by onifre
12-27-2012 4:10 PM


Re: ...one idiot to another....
You are aware, surely, that hunting rifles, assault rifles, and handguns use the same ammunition? Or can, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 4:10 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 5:22 PM crashfrog has replied

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