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Author Topic:   What is missing from the theory of evolution
DC85
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 44 of 68 (686132)
12-29-2012 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by kofh2u
12-23-2012 9:59 AM


Re: Directed Evolution
I would argue that since Instincts are formed from previous life experiences

The defies most definitions of what instincts are. Many inherited instincts are observed and pretty constant from culture.

things that took place in previous generations, after the people had been born, and because they found responses to certain experience were effective.

It's more likely that in the pre-modern world people without such instincts died. For instance there are a number of social instincts and reactions that have proven beneficial for a complex social species, people without such traits may become outcasts or less liked within the population meaning they were less likely to reproduce. These social instincts are such a part of human behavior that we say that people without them have a disability. One example I believe is Asperger's syndrome and varying forms of it.

Since these experiences were decision based, i.e., a choice in response made to circumstances like snakes and spiders, say, the instinct is a mental construct that appears in our mind."

They are not. The decision comes from breaking the "normal" behavior.

We KNOW something intuitively and instinctively which comes down to us and DIRECTS us from an ancient resouvier in our Unconscious mind.

We are directed yes.... but by behaviors often needed to be part of a population. Those that didn't have them in the past died or were less likely to reproduce.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by kofh2u, posted 12-23-2012 9:59 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by kofh2u, posted 12-29-2012 12:11 PM DC85 has replied
 Message 47 by kofh2u, posted 12-29-2012 12:23 PM DC85 has replied
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 12:57 PM DC85 has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 46 of 68 (686134)
12-29-2012 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by kofh2u
12-29-2012 12:11 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
you answered your own criticism in that "inherited instincts" means they are traits which are sourced in our genes.

Is it common for you to take a single section of a post and ignore the rest? I will cease talking with you if you do this again, please don't assume you "won" if I do this.

I explained were such ingrained traits come from and I did not include" intelligent programming"(which seems to be what you're saying) at all.

I said the following

quote:
DC85 said:
It's more likely that in the pre-modern world people without such instincts died. For instance there are a number of social instincts and reactions that have proven beneficial for a complex social species, people without such traits may become outcasts or less liked within the population meaning they were less likely to reproduce. These social instincts are such a part of human behavior that we say that people without them have a disability. One example I believe is Asperger's syndrome and varying forms of it.

Edited by DC85, : spelling


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DC85
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 48 of 68 (686136)
12-29-2012 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by kofh2u
12-29-2012 12:23 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
Again, you just described evolution that has been directed by traits in us that aid in our survival. These traits are now instinctual reactions inherent in us from birth but learned from those experiences which eliminated other people as we survived and evolved beyond their extinctions.

You are FALSELY claiming that I said the humans have always had these traits when I am actually saying that they evolved through the course of human evolution because the more "social butterfly" you are the better your chance of survival.

You appear to be taking me out of context.

Edited by DC85, : No reason given.


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DC85
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(4)
Message 54 of 68 (686143)
12-29-2012 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by kofh2u
12-29-2012 12:51 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
There is no evidence of these being learned behaviors in fact the opposite is true. We observe chemical reactions involved that can even be modified by medication.

Learned behaviors or "Habits" tend to create new pathways in the brain. Very very different things.


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DC85
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 56 of 68 (686145)
12-29-2012 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by RAZD
12-29-2012 12:57 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
"would say that instinctual behavior is not a learned behavior, nor a rational behavior (ie - based on rational thought processes resulting in a conclusion), but one that occurs at a subconscious level. Breathing (when not under conscious control) would be instinctual."

Indeed, and large portions of how humans do around other humans are subconscious or seem to be to many studies.

Anti-social and\or a-social behavior, a lack of empathy with others -- not necessarily restricted to asperger's or even to other forms of autism.

Of course it isn't, I however used it as an quick example and I believe the most well known and studied.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 12:57 PM RAZD has seen this message

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 61 of 68 (686173)
12-29-2012 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by kofh2u
12-29-2012 2:42 PM


Re: Directed Evolution -- not testable philosophic hypothesis
all judgments and perceptions reflect the workings of our mind on two levels: the conscious, of which we are aware, and the unconscious, which is hidden from us.

Except for the fact it's far more complex then conscious and unconscious. We have behaviors that are normal and observed throughout the majority of people that can be shown to be the result of reactions in the brain. None of them are "Hidden from us."

Then we have unconscious behaviors that started as conscious behavior that through the course of our minds "reward system" become "habits" these literally carve out new pathways in the brain. We do not observe this same pathway reaction with instinct behavior meaning learned behavior cannot be inherited.

I also would like to recommend a book called "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg. It likely the easiest way I've seen it explained

Edited by DC85, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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