Have You Ever Read Ephesians?

Have You ever even read the Bible?

My overall question is that if there is any value in examining Ephesians, is that value necessarily reduced by knowledge or suggestion that Ephesians not written by who claims to have written it nor for the audience it claims to be given to.

Ephesians 1:1-2 writes:Eph 1:1-2
1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:3-10 writes:Eph 1:3-10
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment-to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Ephesians 1:11-14 writes:Eph 1:11-14
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory.

jaywill writes:Well, we do know that forgeries did take place. I just hate the thought of having to put Ephesians away in order to go spend my time reading plethora of non-canonical writings. I barely have time to digest the wisdom of the Christian teaching in Ephesians.

Jazzns writes:My question is, does the question of Paul's authorship bear upon the relevance of Ephesians as theological work?

jar writes:Who told you that?

Wiki writes:The major theme of the letter is the unity and reconciliation of the whole of creation through the agency of the Church and, in particular, its foundation in Christ as part of the will of the Father.

jaywill writes:Okay. Ephesians. What a great book to read aloud. What a great book to read prayerfully. If reading Ephesians doesn't cause you to ascend in your heart to the spiritual heights, I don't know what will.

Ephesians 1:15-23 writes: 15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. NIV

jaywill writes:To livin up the discussion a bit - I think the Spirit in verse 17 should be with a small s as in human spirit rather than a capital S as in Holy Spirit.What would you say about that ?

Ringo writes:But isn't it better to bitch and moan as you take out your garbage (and your neighbour's garbage) than to let it pile up in the house?

PD writes: I don’t see Ephesians as a document to deceive, but to give readers an idea of what to expect when they read the letters of Paul.
Even though the situations addressed by Paul to specific churches had since passed by the time Ephesians is considered to be written by some scholars, that doesn't negate the basics of Paul’s life lessons.

PD writes:Basically, keep moving forward, treat others well, and don’t fall back to old bad behavior.

NIV writes:Eph 2:1-6--As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-it is by grace you have been saved.

jar writes:What does the evidence show?Do you do the works?

NIV writes:Ephesians2:6-10--6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

NIV writes:Eph 2:11-22--Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)- 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

NIV writes:But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

NIV writes:Eph 3:2-6
Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.

Ringo writes:So I would say that "walking in the spirit" has more to do with the spirit of the message than the spirit of the messenger.

Ringo writes:Even if the King carries his own message, the message is still more important than the messenger.

Deut 8:1-4 writes: 1 Be careful to follow every command I am giving you today, so that you may live and increase and may enter and possess the land that the LORD promised on oath to your forefathers. 2 Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. 3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.

Ringo writes:It doesn't matter if the messenger dies, as long as the message gets through. Unfortunately, it often doesn't if you deify the messenger.

NIV writes:Eph 3:7-19-- I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. 13 I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge-that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Vines writes:DISPENSATION
in Eph 1:10 and 3:9, it is used of the arrangement or administration by God, by which in "the fullness of the times" (or seasons) God will sum up all things in the heavens and on earth in Christ. In Eph 3:9 some mss. have koinonia, "fellowship," for oikonomia, "dispensation."

Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright (c)1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers writes:MYSTERYIn the New Testament, mystery refers to a secret that is revealed by God to His servants through His Spirit. As such, it is an "open secret." Mystery occurs three times in the Gospels. Jesus told His disciples, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God" (Matt 13:11; Mark 4:11; Luke 8:10). Jesus explained the mystery of God's kingdom to His disciples. But to others He declared, "All things come in parables" (Mark 4:11).Most of the occurrences of the word mystery are in the Pauline Epistles. Mystery refers to the revelation of God's plan of salvation as that plan focuses in Christ. The gospel itself is a "mystery which was kept secret since the world began" (Rom 16:25). This mystery was revealed by God through the prophetic Scriptures to Paul and the church (1 Cor 2:7; Eph 6:19; Col 4:3).

jaywill writes: Man's faith in Christ is the most mighty thing. It deserve no pity. God's household law and His dispensation is carried out in the realm of faith. It is not faith in a vacuum.

jaywill writes: Walk by the Spirit is nothing like "Turn over a new leaf". It is nothing like Self correction and self reform.Walk by the Spirit is not self cultivation. It is not a humanistic self improvement. And it is not like the Chinese Confucius teaching of developing the "bright virtue" within.I am concerned that one could read into this unique phrase of walking by the Spirit to mean something vaguely akin to making a new year's resolution or deciding to buckle down and improve one's own behavior.

NIV writes:John 9:4-5-- As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

jaywill writes: I may self improve myself, and perhaps drop some bad habits. In so doing and not going along with some bad habits in the past that is not necessarily walking by the Spirit of Christ or by the Holy Spirit in the New Testament.The walk by the Spirit can only involve a living Lord Jesus. Any decision to merely think "What Would Jesus Do?" and then act like that is probably not walking in the Spirit.

PD writes:They choose not to be guided by the Christian Holy Spirit; but right behavior is right behavior whether guided by a belief system or not.
This debate is about the Christian lifestyle not any other.

NIV writes:Eph 3:20-21--Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

NIV writes:Eph 4:1-5:1--As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.(*yes,jar...works *)2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit- just as you were called to one hope when you were called- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (*God is over us,through us and in us*)
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. ( *Grace was given...we didn't earn it*)8 This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men."9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
20 You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, (*definitely something we do *)which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new (*definitely through Grace*) in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.