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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1261 of 5179 (687194)
01-08-2013 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1258 by AZPaul3
01-08-2013 12:14 PM


Re: Aurora...again
Isn't this pretty much the action called for by the NRA after Sandy Hook?
I honestly don't know. I don't pay attention to the NRA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1258 by AZPaul3, posted 01-08-2013 12:14 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 1262 of 5179 (687200)
01-08-2013 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1260 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2013 12:35 PM


Re: Aurora...again
CS writes:
If the individual is unable to help, then they can just leave their gun holstered.
Unless they are trained or experienced in such situations on what basis do they make that judgement call?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1260 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 12:35 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1264 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 1:32 PM Straggler has not replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


(3)
Message 1263 of 5179 (687207)
01-08-2013 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1260 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2013 12:35 PM


Re: Aurora...again
CS responds:
Concealed-carry training in no way includes crisis training.
I don't think it needs to.
The polite way I have to reply to that is that you, in my opinion, are WAY WRONG. As a courtesy to you and everyone else here, I'm leaving out about 46 F words.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1260 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 12:35 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1265 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 1:34 PM xongsmith has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1264 of 5179 (687208)
01-08-2013 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1262 by Straggler
01-08-2013 1:00 PM


Re: Aurora...again
CS writes:
If the individual is unable to help, then they can just leave their gun holstered.
Unless they are trained or experienced in such situations on what basis do they make that judgement call?
That's going to vary from situation to situation. I'd say: when in doubt, don't pull it out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1262 by Straggler, posted 01-08-2013 1:00 PM Straggler has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1265 of 5179 (687209)
01-08-2013 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1263 by xongsmith
01-08-2013 1:31 PM


Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I would have preferred some reasoning for why I'm wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by xongsmith, posted 01-08-2013 1:31 PM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1266 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2013 2:32 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 1266 of 5179 (687215)
01-08-2013 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1265 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2013 1:34 PM


The video shows why you're wrong. Have a look at it when you get home.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1265 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 1:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1267 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 3:06 PM Tangle has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1267 of 5179 (687219)
01-08-2013 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1266 by Tangle
01-08-2013 2:32 PM


The video shows why you're wrong. Have a look at it when you get home.
Well I skimmed it. It showed some people failing to adequately use their gun in a crisis situation, and explained why it was difficult for them to use it.
That doesn't show that concealed-carry training needs to include crisis training. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean that you have to use it. But preventing people from having guns means that they can never use it.
If your in a situation where you're worse off drawing your gun, then don't draw your gun.
Without denying that there is any situation where a gun would help, I don't see how the fact that they're not useful in some situations shows why I'm wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2013 2:32 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1268 by petrophysics1, posted 01-08-2013 3:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 1269 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2013 3:39 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 1270 by Percy, posted 01-08-2013 3:45 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 1268 of 5179 (687222)
01-08-2013 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2013 3:06 PM


Hi CS,
Hmmmm, crisis training, I don't know. Criminals seem to do OK without it. Don't you think?
BTW Wyoming is a complete open carry state but last year they passed a law so now as a resident I can concealed carry and don't need any kind of permit. Out of state people do or I do if I go to another state.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 3:06 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1274 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 4:34 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 1269 of 5179 (687223)
01-08-2013 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2013 3:06 PM


Given that's it's extremely unlikely that you would ever find yourself in a situation where having a gun could conceivably be necessary and that if it ever did happen, it would be either ineffectual or actually make you a target, why take the additional risk and inconvenience?
Could it be that you just like guns and the feeling they give you?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 3:06 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1273 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 4:27 PM Tangle has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(3)
Message 1270 of 5179 (687224)
01-08-2013 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2013 3:06 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:
If your in a situation where you're worse off drawing your gun, then don't draw your gun.
The point people are trying to make is that without the proper training and periodic refresher courses one won't be competent at making decisions about whether one might be better or worse off drawing one's gun. One would be more likely to panic and do something foolish that would make things worse.
A safer approach might be to not carry or even own a gun unless one has received the training for crisis situations, takes the periodic refresher courses, and visits a shooting range on a regular basis.
Most gun use that results in deaths does not happen during the commission of a crime. Most people are murdered by someone they already know who is not trying to rob them but is upset or drunk or on drugs or crazy or some combination. When you're confronted by someone in this condition then death isn't a likely outcome if there's no gun . But if there's a gun it's a much different story.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 3:06 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1272 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 4:22 PM Percy has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 1271 of 5179 (687228)
01-08-2013 4:15 PM


.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1277 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2013 5:19 PM Faith has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1272 of 5179 (687229)
01-08-2013 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1270 by Percy
01-08-2013 3:45 PM


The point people are trying to make is that without the proper training and periodic refresher courses one won't be competent at making decisions about whether one might be better or worse off drawing one's gun.
Then don't draw it. Reserve that for when you do know that it is going to help. In fact, one of the lessons in concealed-carry courses is: if you can run then do run.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1270 by Percy, posted 01-08-2013 3:45 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1285 by Percy, posted 01-09-2013 6:13 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1273 of 5179 (687230)
01-08-2013 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1269 by Tangle
01-08-2013 3:39 PM


Could it be that you just like guns and the feeling they give you?
I do like guns. And I do enjoy feeling the sense of accomplishment I get from improving my accuracy or getting a new high score or beating my brother in a match.
Given that's it's extremely unlikely that you would ever find yourself in a situation where having a gun could conceivably be necessary and that if it ever did happen, it would be either ineffectual or actually make you a target...
Show me your data.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1269 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2013 3:39 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1275 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2013 4:46 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 1286 by Percy, posted 01-09-2013 6:25 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1274 of 5179 (687232)
01-08-2013 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1268 by petrophysics1
01-08-2013 3:38 PM


Hmmmm, crisis training, I don't know. Criminals seem to do OK without it. Don't you think?
Yeah, but they're not trying to not hurt people.
BTW Wyoming is a complete open carry state but last year they passed a law so now as a resident I can concealed carry and don't need any kind of permit. Out of state people do or I do if I go to another state.
And how does your crime rate look?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1268 by petrophysics1, posted 01-08-2013 3:38 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1275 of 5179 (687234)
01-08-2013 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1273 by New Cat's Eye
01-08-2013 4:27 PM


CS writes:
Show me your data.
Tell us your experience carrying a gun, how often have you caried it and how often have you had cause to use it?
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1273 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 4:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1288 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2013 10:30 AM Tangle has replied

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