Biblical contradictions.

http://www.webster.sk.ca/greenwich/bible-a.htmHere's a link to an intriguing article i've come across last night...food for thoughts,perhaps?

bump

quote:

---

Originally posted by doctrbill:
Lots of interesting stuff here. Is there anything in particular you would like to discuss.

---

"IN GENESIS, the long discredited description of the heavens as a "firmament" is a fundamental contradiction in the Bible of the known realities of astronomy today. Biblical stars, sun and moon are all embedded "in" this firmament. (The meaning, during biblical times, of the word "firmament," was a "solid" body or orb, or the solid concentric domes holding the heavenly bodies ~ Webster's Third International Dictionary.) We are told there are waters below the firmament, and told waters are "above" it, too (1:7). Really!! "this particular part i found very enlightening...Firmament meant Solid Orb in biblical times....thats would go to explain a lot of biblical quotations...such as the windows of heaven,opening up to poor rain in and the fact that there is water below and above the FIRMAMENT...which seems to imply that the earth was,in the mind of early biblical autors,some sort of bubble surrounded by water.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Diamus:
Two friends living in the 1700s had a small dispute.
One was a hard core christian and was sending letters to the
other trying to get him to convert to christianity.
After several of these letters he wrote him back.
Here is his letter.
I find this letter quite inspiring so please read on.
Feel free to email me with either words of critisism or encourgement.

​

"In your letter of the twentieth of March, you give me several quotations from the Bible, which you call the Word of God, to show me that my opinions on religion are wrong, and I could give you as many, from the same book to show that yours are not right; consequently, then, the Bible decides nothing, because it decides any way, and every way, one chooses to make it.

​

"But by what authority do you call the Bible the Word of God? for this is the first point to be settled. It is not your calling it so that makes it so, any more than the Mahometans calling the Koran the Word of God makes the Koran to be so. The Popish Councils of Nice and Laodicea, about 350 years after the time the person called Jesus Christ is said to have lived, voted the books that now compose what is called the New Testament to be the Word of God. This was done by yeas and nays, as we now vote a law.

​

"The Pharisees of the second temple, after the Jews returned from captivity in Babylon, did the same by the books that now compose the Old Testament, and this is all the authority there is, which to me is no authority at all. I am as capable of judging for myself as they were, and I think more so, because, as they made a living by their religion, they had a self-interest in the vote they gave.

​

"You may have an opinion that a man is inspired, but you cannot prove it, nor can you have any proof of it yourself, because you cannot see into his mind in order to know how he comes by his thoughts; and the same is the case with the word revelation. There can be no evidence of such a thing, for you can no more prove revelation than you can prove what another man dreams of, neither can he prove it himself.

​

"It is often said in the Bible that God spake unto Moses, but how do you know that God spake unto Moses? Because, you will say, the Bible says so. The Koran says, that God spake unto Mahomet, do you believe that too? No.

​

"Why not? Because, you will say, you do not believe it; and so because you do, and because you don't is all the reason you can give for believing or disbelieving except that you will say that Mahomet was an impostor. And how do you know Moses was not an impostor?

​

"For my own part, I believe that all are impostors who pretend to hold verbal communication with the Deity. It is the way by which the world has been imposed upon; but if you think otherwise you have the same right to your opinion that I have to mine, and must answer for it in the same manner. But all this does not settle the point, whether the Bible be the Word of God, or not. It is therefore necessary to go a step further. The case then is: -

​

"You form your opinion of God from the account given of Him in the Bible; and I form my opinion of the Bible from the wisdom and goodness of God manifested in the structure of the universe, and in all works of creation. The result in these two cases will be, that you, by taking the Bible for your standard, will have a bad opinion of God; and I, by taking God for my standard, shall have a bad opinion of the Bible.

​

"The Bible represents God to be a changeable, passionate, vindictive being; making a world and then drowning it, afterwards repenting of what he had done, and promising not to do so again. Setting one nation to cut the throats of another, and stopping the course of the sun till the butchery should be done. But the works of God in the creation preach to us another doctrine. In that vast volume we see nothing to give us the idea of a changeable, passionate, vindictive God; everything we there behold impresses us with a contrary idea - that of unchangeableness and of eternal order, harmony, and goodness.

​

"The sun and the seasons return at their appointed time, and everything in the creation claims that God is unchangeable. Now, which am I to believe, a book that any impostor might make and call the Word of God, or the creation itself which none but an Almighty Power could make? For the Bible says one thing, and the creation says the contrary. The Bible represents God with all the passions of a mortal, and the creation proclaims him with all the attributes of a God.

​

"It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man. That bloodthirsty man, called the prophet Samuel, makes God to say, (I Sam. xv. 3) `Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'

​

"That Samuel or some other impostor might say this, is what, at this distance of time, can neither be proved nor disproved, but in my opinion it is blasphemy to say, or to believe, that God said it. All our ideas of the justice and goodness of God revolt at the impious cruelty of the Bible. It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.

​

"What makes this pretended order to destroy the Amalekites appear the worse, is the reason given for it. The Amalekites, four hundred years before, according to the account in Exodus xvii. (but which has the appearance of fable from the magical account it gives of Moses holding up his hands), had opposed the Israelites coming into their country, and this the Amalekites had a right to do, because the Israelites were the invaders, as the Spaniards were the invaders of Mexico. This opposition by the Amalekites, at that time, is given as a reason, that the men, women, infants and sucklings, sheep and oxen, camels and asses, that were born four hundred years afterward, should be put to death; and to complete the horror, Samuel hewed Agag, the chief of the Amalekites, in pieces, as you would hew a stick of wood. I will bestow a few observations on this case.

​

"In the first place, nobody knows who the author, or writer, of the book of Samuel was, and, therefore, the fact itself has no other proof than anonymous or hearsay evidence, which is no evidence at all. In the second place, this anonymous book says, that this slaughter was done by the express command of God: but all our ideas of the justice and goodness of God give the lie to the book, and as I never will believe any book that ascribes cruelty and injustice to God, I therefore reject the Bible as unworthy of credit.

​

"As I have now given you my reasons for believing that the Bible is not the Word of God, that it is a falsehood, I have a right to ask you your reasons for believing the contrary; but I know you can give me none, except that you were educated to believe the Bible; and as the Turks give the same reason for believing the Koran, it is evident that education makes all the difference, and that reason and truth have nothing to do in the case.

​

"You believe in the Bible from the accident of birth, and the Turks believe in the Koran from the same accident, and each calls the other infidel. But leaving the prejudice of education out of the case, the unprejudiced truth is, that all are infidels who believe falsely of God, whether they draw their creed from the Bible, or from the Koran, from the Old Testament, or from the New.

​

"When you have examined the Bible with the attention that I have done (for I do not think you know much about it), and permit yourself to have just ideas of God, you will most probably believe as I do. But I wish you to know that this answer to your letter is not written for the purpose of changing your opinion. It is written to satisfy you, and some other friends whom I esteem, that my disbelief of the Bible is founded on a pure and religious belief in God; for in my opinion the Bible is a gross libel against the justice and goodness of God, in almost every part of it."

​

---

Good Lord....i could have writen that letter. It echos my very thoughts on the subject in every syllables. Thank you for posting it here.

quote:

---

Originally posted by doctrbill:
Ludvan - I've got better things to do than read extraneous cut and paste books. Your repeat of it doesn't help my attitude.

---

Sorry Doc....i hit the reply quote without realizing it...you,re right...it does make for overly long posts. I'll be carefull next time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cravingjava:
You're inability to understand the bible almost ranks up there with your blatant hypocrisy by using the term "Good Lord..."

​

LUD: My inability to understand the Bible huh? Apparantly,i understand it enough to know that it is merely the words of men that have been attributed to God by the votes of man. And the autor of the letter,whoever he/she may be was pointing out that the Bible is often depicting God as a short sighted,vindictive and sadistic little tyrant who acts as a kid who found his dad's gun in a drawer as opposed to the wise and benevolent entity as which he is also described in OTHER parts of the Bible. The universe itself stands to contradic the Bible on many a point,as the letter points out repeatadly and i agree with this assessement wholeheartadly. As for my use of the expression "Good Lord"...thats just it...an expression. I was not aware that YEC literalists had copyrights on it...as soon as i receive the copy of a document that proves your intelectual property over it,i'll stop using it. Honest.

​

Though the letter thouroughly explains why one may choose to not accept the bible as God's Word...it clearly fails to prove anything in regards to the falsehood of the Bible. It is only an opinion and nothing more.

​

LUD:It does have to...anyone who reads the Bible without this ridiculous,absolute need to see it as flawless literal truth that most YEC seem to suffer from,will realise that it is what it is...a collection of stories,some mythological,some real that are writen to make a point and to try an express what the autors felt they understood about the divine and the universe as a whole and the cultural bias of those autors is clearly evident. If the Bible had been writen today,as opposed to back then,no part of it would describe the world as a small,immobile flat disk coiffed with a solid dome(firmament) that comes equiped with a window to allow God to drown the world at his leisure. No part of the Bible would in any way shape or form condone slavery of anyone and especially not of your own children being sold to someone else. Angels would not be depicted as wearing armors,shields and swords but rather wearing kevlar bodysuits and weilding m-60 machine guns. Besides,if you care to examin the link i provide at the begining of this thread,you'll realize that the Bible is riddle with contradictions,which means that for it to be the literal truth,than many opposite two things have to true AT THE SAME TIME.

​

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cravingjava:
Not really but obviously you are offended by the greatest and most influential book of the ages. Oh well, keep up the good work...

---

In your opinion it is the "greatest book of all time"...but then,ask the Jews and they'll say its the Talmut or the Torah scrolls. Ask a Muslim,and he'll say the Quoran...but if you ask me,i reply none of the above. They are books well worth the read,no question there but only if you recognize them for what they are...the work of men who understood God about as well as you or i and tried to put that into words,along side stories,some real,some mythological,some a little of both and with whatever laws they wanted the people they led to accept without question,for whatever reason,some good(no killing,no stealing,wash your hands after you touch certain things before you eat),some bad(stone homosexuals,stone anyone gifted with a medium's sixth sense,you can sell your kids into slavery and enslave other human beings),and some downright weird and stupid(if you weave a cloth with different threads or light a match on a saturday,yep,thats right,you guessed it,we stone your ass)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cravingjava:
Hehe...now you know how much I understand God? Dang...are you God?
The reason I ask is because your mindless bantering would not be what I would expect from God..but hey, what the heck do I know, right? I don't agree with you and so the only inference that can be made is that I am wrong. Hehe

---

Dear Lord! are you just being silly here or is it really what you really think? i truly hope its the former. When i say,you or i,thats called A FIGURE OF SPEECH. But then,being a literalist,i may understand why you wouldn't know this. So go right ahead...Idolize your bible,instead of the message its supposed to contain...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cravingjava:
Wow...nice speech. Bunch of rhetoric crap but nice speech nonetheless.
Funny how your rebuke is only directed towards those that dare oppose your way of thinking. Maybe you should stick around a little longer to see who "flames" who. And for goodness sakes....take a chill pill friend. Your insecurity about your beliefs is way to to obvious.

---

Actually,he was dead on target with his "speech" ,though expecting a christian to recognize that they use double and tripple standards all the time would require a truckload of faith on our parts. Christians Judge...they do nothing But. They are idolaters of the Bible and completely forgot what the message of the Bible is. They dont see Christ for what he was,a messenger from God,but as their ticket to greatness,ruling at his side as crowned sovereign of the planet. "Judge not,lest ye be judged as well"...ring a bell?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cravingjava:

quote:

---

Originally posted by LudvanB:
Actually,he was dead on target with his "speech" ,though expecting a christian to recognize that they use double and tripple standards all the time would require a truckload of faith on our parts. Christians Judge...they do nothing But. They are idolaters of the Bible and completely forgot what the message of the Bible is. They dont see Christ for what he was,a messenger from God,but as their ticket to greatness,ruling at his side as crowned sovereign of the planet. "Judge not,lest ye be judged as well"...ring a bell?

​

---

​

Lol...wow, what a hypocrite. Because I believe the bible to be the word of God, I can't have episodes of acting like a self righteous moron too? How unfair!

​

Let me see if I understand you correctly....If I declare the bible to be false and not the word of God (like you), then I can act like a butthead (like you)and no one will care?
Hehe

​

---

Well first,lets examin this a little further. How exactly would you define acting as a...how did you say?...Butthead?(very eloquent,BTW). Would you say that anyone who does not believe in the Bible as being the literal words of God are all "Buttheads" by default? Is the unquestionning belief in your chosen religion the only evidence of intelligence you accept? Do you believe that it is possible for someone to be an educated,intelligent and well intentionned,good hearted person with moral values,different from yours but strong values nevertheless,and at the same time NOT believe that the Bible in the innerant word of God?

None of the links you provided refutes in any credible way the contradictions in the link that i provided at the begining of this thread...at most,they attempt to blur the issue.

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~werdna/contradictions/contradictions1.html#20well for instance in the above link,they try to weasel out of the contradictions on technicalities...take the exemple of spirits sent to deceive. They say that since the spirits and not God are SPEAKING the deception,then God isen't the one lying...which is technicaly true but certainly not in spirit,since the attempt of deception comes at God's command...hence,from him. If i tell someone to lie to you,i'd be equally guilty of the deception as the person actually wording it. Examine the links you provided. They are concistant in that line of thoughts...an attempt to loophole their way out of the contradiction argument.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jet:

I must wonder if the author of this site ever bothered to read an actual Bible, and if so, where did they get the wierd translation that they have used to make the erroneous claims that are made, and what level of education does this person have that they are unable to grasp even the most basic understanding of English grammatical text. I am not sure what "translation" of the Bible was used to support the obvious errors in this persons thinking, (maybe they simply typed up their own translation), but it is nothing close to any of the translations that I use. Does this person have even a basic understanding of Hebrew or Chaldee? I must doubt that they do, seeing as how they seem to have a very limited understanding of the proper use of the English grammatical text and how to maintain it within its' proper context. I have only a limited understanding of the Hebrew and Chaldee, but even I am able to properly utilize a concordance. This site was a waste of my valuable time. The author of this site is a walking oxymoron.

​

---

I believe,though i'm not sure,that he uses the KJV. BTW,that was a nice diatribe...would you care to give specific exemple as to what quotation is taken out of context and what would be the correct context for it?