Summations Only

Incredible. Where is your faith?

what basis have you got for this assumption? do you think god wants everyone armed to the teeth? why?

I think it's so that, after the other cheek has been turned, they can still blow the muther away.

So on one hand you deny that your extreme position on armament is based on a culture of fear and yet a few posts later you state that gun totin Americans are all that stand between the wrath of God and some sort of implied Armageddon-oblivion-end-of-the-world type scenario.Do I really need to point out the contradictory nature of this? Do I really need to point out which of us is engaging hyperbolic fanaticism? It isn't the majority of the free world that are gun-control-fanatics Faith. It is you that indisputably lies at the extreme end of opinion on these matters.One thing about which you are correct is in identifying the approach I have taken conversing with you as "emotional". I know from past experience that presenting you with facts and evidence and purely reasoned arguments is a fruitless endeavour. Anything that disagrees with that which you believe will just be rejected and dismissed regardless of it's veracity.I had however hoped to successfully convey to you on a more emotional level that there are many places in the world where people are going about their business free from tyranny, free from perpetual fear of whatever faceless threat is presently being touted as that which will bring an imminent end to your liberty and free from the notion that the world will end if they don't surround themselves with deadly weapons.There are millions of people out there enjoying life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without any need for guns to play a role in their lives at all.There is a better way........... Genuine threats will be confronted.But our response to such possible threats must not be shaped by the relentless and incessant fear-mongering of talking heads who are solely interested in ratings and the promotion of ideology.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Had you forgotten that Moses himself was president of the NRA?

First you say you don't believe very few murders are prevented by armed citizens because there are no statistics: And then you say you don't trust statistics: So which is it? Do you want statistics or not?The real reason you stopped reading statistics was because they didn't support your position. Statistics reflect facts from the real world. In ignoring them you're just ignoring the real world.Anyway, in case you change your mind about statistics, concerning murders and crimes prevented by armed citizens the Wikipedia article on Gun Violence in the United States has a discussion about attempts to study this statistically, see the section on Self-protection. The statistics make clear distinctions between suicide, homicide and accident. The more guns the more gun deaths there will be. There is no law in Switzerland requiring heads of household to possess a gun.--Percy

This is a misleading statistic: how many households have more than one gun? There are people with large collections of gun, so many that there aren't enough hands to hold them. See? you fell for the fallacy you posted.Gun Ownership Statistics & Demographics - Statistic Brain

quote:

---

Year	Percent Ownership
2011	36 %
2010	39 %
2009	40%
2007	42%
2005	40 %
2004	38 %
2003	43 %
2002	34 %
2000	32 %

---

→ 89/36 = ~2.5 guns per household, average. Distribution would be a skewed curve ... Canada came from the same wild frontier colonial background as the US but they do not have the same levels of gun worship, nor do they have the same degree of problems with violence and murders.It is possible to find rational controls to reduce gun deaths. There are rational people in the states. This question was asked of Faith because she claimed Gandhi would not have survived in Nazi Germany and that he did in India because England was more civilized.I'm just suggesting that "more civilized" mean more willing to impose controls.EnjoyEdited by RAZD, : ave

minor quibble. Westward expansion in the US and Canada were fundamentally different. There was not the unfettered, wild expansion into western Canada as there was into the US territories. This was partly related to climate and opportunities for viable homesteading, but was also tempered by who controlled the territory.Most of western Canada was Ruperts Land and other land controlled by the Hudsons Bay Company. This area was controlled by the company to maximize revenues form the fur trade. There was not the influx of settlers that was seen early in the 19th century in the US. The native peoples were also treated much differently in Canada. They were seen as the company as cheap labor to exploit for the fur trade. Though they were exploited there was not the attempted genocide we had in the US.These are a few of many reasons why the Canadian experience was much different. Also, remember Canada was a politically linked to Great Britain until very recently. Canada is seemingly more "European" in outlook than the US.

Thanks I lived there for 18 years and found them to be generally a bit more civilized Certainly when it came to guns.Enjoy

Um, my position is "extreme" only at EvC, other places it is totally boringly normal. Well, at least biblically correct. There IS a sense that some bad things are coming that EvC people do seem to be completely oblivious to, but as for a "culture of fear" connected with the second amendment in general, no, that's ridiculous. It's a right and when it's threatened some will fight for it. "All that stand between" is a very weird phrase. I regard it as a SIGN, not some kind of bulwark of defense in itself.The nation is under God's judgment, has been for quite some time. 9/11 was a warning judgment, but few recognized it and the few were vilified by others, which of course only means worse judgment is going to come. The proper response to God's judgment is repenting of the sin that is bringing it on us and turning back to Him. That's how you save a nation from it. That's not happening to any great degree but I am hoping that at least some of the churches are waking up.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Hey Heathen, it isn't that God wants us all "armed to the teeth" it's that the second amendment represents our Constitutional rights and when those go the nation is going down. It's a RIGHT, and it is meant for our protection. Taking it away is removing our protections.

Where is my faith? He'll protect me through whatever is coming one way or another because I trust Him. I'd still rather not see the nation destroyed you know.

I don't know what you mean by "least corrupted" though. What DO you mean? "Least affected by religion" also means what? As I said before you seem to regard this as cause and effect but that can be deceptive, since Biblically speaking there is a time lag between the causes, whether of prosperity and blessing or deterioration and judgment, and the result itself. OK. I got all that. What's your point? You're proud of Norway? Is that it?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

If this doesn't qualify as consistent with fostering a culture of fear what does?Faith - Seriously - If Obama's proposals were to get through in full what exactly do you think would happen?

I've lost track of this conversation, it seems to be all over the place now. I thought the "culture of fear" idea had to do with wanting schools armed as a solution to the homicidal maniacs problem, which I just see as common sense and not a culture of fear at all.Now I'm talking about something else altogether, that I think if we lose the second amendment it will most likely be a sign that God's judgment of the nation has reached the point of no return. This IS a different subject.And certainly God's judgments should be feared. Absolutely. The solution, again, is to turn back to God. Right now his proposals don't completely overthrow the second amendment. (And I'm really hoping that state agencies are going to use their legal right to prevent his measures from taking effect anyway, which is a growing possibility.) What I'm saying is that if that happens it would be a SIGN that God has abandoned the nation. I don't have a clear idea of what is going to happen. God's judgments take many forms. I hope for the best. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.