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Author Topic:   The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil.
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 707 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 334 (68831)
11-23-2003 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Buzsaw
11-23-2003 6:05 PM


But you stated that there's a "weight of evidence" that contradicts their existence.

Maybe you should tell me what a demon is, first, and what qualities it has. All I know about demons I know from mythological sources, and the Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual.

Can demons be summoned? Can they be bound to do the summoners bidding? Or are they just some random, malevolent force? Are they visible or invisible?

We only know they exist because of the effect they make in the universe.

Well, as I said, there's no effect on the universe for which demons are the only, or even the simplest, explanation.


This message is a reply to:
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JustinC
Member (Idle past 4084 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 17 of 334 (68837)
11-23-2003 6:51 PM


Don't act like you don't know what a demon is, you've probably come in contact with them several times.

Haven't you ever ejaculated in your sleep? Do you think that just happens randomly? Of course not, demons called succubi come and have sex with you when you are sleeping.

What do you think causes young, prepubescent girls to become pregnant? Do you think any full grown man would have sex with them? Nope, demons again.

They're all around you. You can't see them because you are blinded by atheist dogma, let the truth set you free.


Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Coragyps, posted 11-23-2003 6:56 PM JustinC has taken no action
 Message 29 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 11-25-2003 2:57 AM JustinC has replied

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 18 of 334 (68838)
11-23-2003 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by JustinC
11-23-2003 6:51 PM


Of course not, demons called succubi come and have sex with you when you are sleeping.
Ya got any phone numbers for some?

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5148 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 19 of 334 (68845)
11-23-2003 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Coragyps
11-23-2003 6:56 PM


coragyps

Do you suppose this is where the word suck comes from? I wonder if they charge by the hour or nightly?


This message is a reply to:
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NeilUnreal
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 334 (68862)
11-23-2003 9:12 PM


This reminds me of the "Ripley's Believe it or Not" episode of the old Dick Van Dyke show. A dog that supposedly never eats anything eats a potato shaped like a duck.

-Neil


  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 334 (68883)
11-23-2003 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by crashfrog
11-23-2003 6:41 PM


You're fudging, Crashy. Where's your "weight of evidence" that demons don't exist?

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 44 by nator, posted 11-30-2003 9:09 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5148 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 22 of 334 (68890)
11-23-2003 11:51 PM


Do we have any documentation of demon possesion that was critically evaluated ?Is there a medical textbook that descibes the condition and proscribe a cure.

Allow me to relate to you an artcle in the Skeptical Inquirer[nov/dec 2003] Titled Autistic Boy Killed During Exorcism.

On Friday August 22003,eight year old Terrance Cotrell.Jr,Who suffers from autism,was held down by church members during a prayer service to exorcise the evil spirits they blamed for his condition.
According to the New York Times,'his shirt was drenched in sweat when the church members who were holding him down,saying they wanted to rid him of demons,finally noticed that he was dead.He had urinated on himself,and his small brown face had a bluish cast.'
According to the medical examiner,there was extensive bruising on the back of the little boy's neck and it appeared that he died of mechanical asphyxiation from pressure placed on his chest.Pat Coper,the boy's mother,told investigators that she held down one of Terrance's feet,while other women held down other parts of his body.

Anyway I will leavre it at that ansd see how the people here absorb this.If you wish you can purchase a copy and look in the news and comments sction on page 11.


Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by NosyNed, posted 11-24-2003 12:40 AM sidelined has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8968
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 23 of 334 (68898)
11-24-2003 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by sidelined
11-23-2003 11:51 PM


Sidelined, you story demonstrates the danger of this kind of thinking. However, in what way is it "evidence"?

What we probably have is enough absence of evidence here to begin to be evidence of absence. But the existance of demons, like other supernatural things might be hard to absolutely disprove.

However, the fact that you have manage to get your opponent to be careless enough to appear to support demonic possesion is an excellent tactic. This will, I guess, gain him credibiility in some circles. However, it will certainly destroy it in other, much wider circles.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by sidelined, posted 11-23-2003 11:51 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
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Rrhain
Member (Idle past 1112 days)
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 24 of 334 (68904)
11-24-2003 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:33 PM


buzsaw writes:

quote:
Ned, a whole lot of us consider Fox to be the most unbiased and objective newscasts of the Networks.

"Just because two million people do a dumb thing, it's still a dumb thing." --Berke Breathed

You may think Fox to be unbiased and objective, buz, but that doesn't make it so.

In fact, an analysis of the viewers of the various networks found that those who got their news from Fox were actually the most likely to be misinformed. Those that got their news from NPR were the least likely to be misinformed.

quote:
At any rate Fox gave no official opinion as to the network's opinion of this. They simply covered it as newsworthy.

A completely unverified and absolutely unverifiable assertion is "newsworthy"? What's next? The sun really has a creamy nougat center?

quote:
At least Fox is not so phobic of the supernatural that they would not consider it newsworthy.

That doesn't make them a better news source. A service that is not "phobic" to do something stupid merely means they are foolhardy, not "good," let alone "fair" or "balanced."

Once again, we all remember the acronym from Journalism 101: FACT = Fast, Accurate, Concise, True.

You will notice that neither "fair" nor "balanced" is in there anywhere. It is the journalist's job to do the research required to find out what is accurate in the story. That necessarily means that those who put forward inaccurate statements don't get to have their opinions reflected in the story.

That doesn't mean they are to be silenced. It simply means that a good journalist will deliberately ignore those that make inaccurate, unverifiable statements.

------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:33 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5148 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 25 of 334 (68937)
11-24-2003 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by NosyNed
11-24-2003 12:40 AM


NosyNed

There are other recorded instances of death through this sort of magical thinking however what is probably not shown is how often is it unassesed as such.The idea of demonic possesion is medieval and dangerous.That such a system of "witchdoctoring" is still prevalent on the modern world is frightening in the least,tragic and heartrending in the actual.
By what means of logic do people such as these determine such these ludicrous levels of treatment.The boy in my example was autistic for christ's sake. I do not believe that the people here would have any possible means of excusing such acts.

To quote further."Though the county medical examiner ruled the boy's death a homicide,Hemphill[the preacher] has been charged only with felony child abuse,and faces a maximum sentence of five years in prison and five years court supervision if convicted.No one else was charged."

I beg of you ,read the article in full. There is a partcularly heinous one involving a five year old girl.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by NosyNed, posted 11-24-2003 12:40 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by NosyNed, posted 11-24-2003 9:44 AM sidelined has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 334 (68938)
11-24-2003 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Rrhain
11-24-2003 2:07 AM


quote:
In fact, an analysis of the viewers of the various networks found that those who got their news from Fox were actually the most likely to be misinformed. Those that got their news from NPR were the least likely to be misinformed.

Just for the record, here's the analysis in question.

As for "not so phobic of the supernatural"... I guess that's why Fox aired Alien Autopsy?

I don't hate them for airing supernatural programming... just for giving Jonothan Frakes work...


This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8968
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 27 of 334 (68940)
11-24-2003 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by sidelined
11-24-2003 9:24 AM


I agree with you completely. My point was simply that the story, by itself, doesn't disprove demonic possesion. It does as point out that ignorance can be a fatal illness. (to the wrong person in this case).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by sidelined, posted 11-24-2003 9:24 AM sidelined has replied

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5148 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 28 of 334 (69108)
11-24-2003 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by NosyNed
11-24-2003 9:44 AM


NosyNed

No it doesnt that is true however if such deads were performed by doctors they would never see the light of day nor the end of lawsuits.And the public outcry would be extraordanary.I do not see how thinking people can assume that such a thing exists without being sceptical.


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Replies to this message:
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Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 334 (69142)
11-25-2003 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by JustinC
11-23-2003 6:51 PM


Hey, JustinCy, I really hope that you’re joking but if your not and if you think that ejaculation and teen pregnancy is caused by "Demons" I think you need to take a step back and seriously think about what you are saying.
Though I try not to make fun of people for their believes I have to ask you, do you also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by JustinC, posted 11-23-2003 6:51 PM JustinC has replied

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Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 334 (69168)
11-25-2003 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:15 PM


Its now on the BBC...
The story of the man who never eats or drinks (for 68 years now apparently) has now made it to the BBC website

Doctors and experts are baffled by an Indian hermit who claims not to have eaten or drunk anything for several decades - but is still in perfect health....

...He says he has survived several decades without food or water because of a hole in his palate.

Drops of water filter through this hole, he says, sustaining him.

Also, from here:

“Jani has not passed urine since he was brought here on November 12. He has not taken anything by mouth or by any other route — not even water during this period. All his parameters are within the normal physiological range. Initially, the project was to continue for seven days but his health allowed us to extend it,” said Dhruv.

Tests have showed that Jani’s body has shown evidence of formation of urine, which seems to be reabsorbed from his bladder wall.

“He underwent all possible medical investigations — from checking blood pressure to MRI of brain and gut, which were normal. Perhaps, he is more fit than other people of his age. This is an attempt to understand a new dimension in medical science and help mankind,” said Dr Sudhir Shah, a neurologist, who was a part of the team who examined a similar case of Hira Ratan Manek, a person who fasted for 411 days.

“But this one is different. Not passing urine and stool is a very striking phenomenon. This is a oneof-a-kind case,” he said.

At present, the committee does not have any scientific explanation for the phenomenon. “All we can say is that we are taking help of senior scientists.”

Weird.

PE


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