Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Microsoft outdoes themselves again, in a bad way
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1 of 45 (691252)
02-21-2013 1:31 PM


Yesterday my mother-in-law received a notice when she tried to login to her email account that it was blocked due to suspicious activity and she needed to verify that she was truly who she says she is. There was an online form. One of the questions was a standard security question that she thinks she knew the answer to. Next she had to give them 3 people she had recently sent emails to and what the subjects were. Like she said how is she supposed to know that if she cannot see her email. Also, wouldn't a hacker be able to know this info? All of her contacts are saved she has no idea what their email addresses are. Also she checks it once a week.
We attempted to give them the information and submitted the form. their response was it was not enough and to resubmit with more info. Sounds like she isn't the only person in this hell.
Here is one thread discussing this in MS forums. There are multiple threads.
MS hell
It is amazing that a corporation like this is so tone deaf to the needs of their users and customers.
Here is the text of our complaint to the state consumer protection. It won't get us anywhere but felt it needed to be said.
quote:
I have had a Microsoft Hotmail account for years. yesterday I received an email stating my account was locked due to suspicions it had been hacked. Microsoft has an online recovery tool, but they have determined I have not provided enough information to prove who I am. There is no ability to contact a person and all I have gotten back is that they want me to provide more information and resubmit.
Like most people now days my email is my link to the world. I have important tax, financial and travel on this account. If I cannot access my account I lose extensive amounts of personal and financial information.
Microsoft has no viable workaround. My son in law has been working on this has found no way to get a response or any workaround.
This MS forum will give you an idea of the magnitude of this issue.
Redirecting
I ahve been calling MS phone numbers. Their response is that they do not offer phone support and will not take my information because they have no idea who to submit it too.
Lovely.
Edited by Theodoric, : slight cleanup

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by nwr, posted 02-21-2013 2:48 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 3 by Shield, posted 02-21-2013 2:59 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 2 of 45 (691260)
02-21-2013 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
02-21-2013 1:31 PM


It is amazing that a corporation like this is so tone deaf to the needs of their users and customers.
No, not at all amazing.
Once upon a time, businesses were run by engineers or by people with an idea and a service. The management really believed in the product or service and in its value.
Today, businesses are run by bean counters. They don't care about the product; they don't care about the quality of their service. They only care about the bottom line on their accounting sheets. People are merely annoying things that get in the way as they try to maximize their profits.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 1:31 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Shield
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


(1)
Message 3 of 45 (691261)
02-21-2013 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
02-21-2013 1:31 PM


It's a free service, no?
Then i dont see the problem. You are not entitled to anything. There are paid email services out there, with better service. Because you pay them money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 1:31 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2013 3:07 PM Shield has seen this message but not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(1)
Message 4 of 45 (691262)
02-21-2013 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Shield
02-21-2013 2:59 PM


It's a free service, no?
Then i dont see the problem. You are not entitled to anything. There are paid email services out there, with better service. Because you pay them money.
This.
I'm assuming that Theodoric has not read the disclaimers and waivers of liability in the agreement you make when creating an account. They don't have to care - rule #1 of email is that email is not in any way a data backup system. You should never, under any circumstances keep any information exclusively in an email system unless you don't care if it's lost. Period. End of story. Even for paid email services, and especially for free ones. After all, the provider is under no obligation to keep their free service available; they can just turn the servers off at any time.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Shield, posted 02-21-2013 2:59 PM Shield has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 3:33 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 5 of 45 (691265)
02-21-2013 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Rahvin
02-21-2013 3:07 PM


It isn't my email
It is my mother in laws. I have nothing important on my email. I back everything up.
The thing is very few people like her are savvy about this. If a service is offered they should provide a way to resolve issues that makes sense and is accessible.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2013 3:07 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AZPaul3, posted 02-21-2013 4:57 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 7 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2013 6:00 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 6 of 45 (691271)
02-21-2013 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Theodoric
02-21-2013 3:33 PM


Re: It isn't my email
If a service is offered they should provide a way to resolve issues that makes sense and is accessible.
In this case expending resources addressing a problem on a service offered for free? No product income? No prospect for incremental revenues?
It's enough to give an MBA a heart attack. The only thing left to pad the bottom line and earn their bonus is to cut out those service expectations that should not have been there anyway.
Gone are the days when a provider had to be concerned about customer satisfaction or reputation to stay in business. There is an entire world out there full of people jaded enough to give their money for some useful product without any expectation of decent support or service. This is their paying customers. Why should they care more for their freeloaders?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 3:33 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(1)
Message 7 of 45 (691273)
02-21-2013 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Theodoric
02-21-2013 3:33 PM


Re: It isn't my email
It is my mother in laws. I have nothing important on my email. I back everything up.
And your mother-in-law should have been doing so as well. As should every single person who uses email.
The thing is very few people like her are savvy about this.
You cant hold Microsoft responsible for her lack of knowledge. That's a problem of education, not a justification to demand some form of redress for the inaccessibility of a service she did not pay for.
If a service is offered they should provide a way to resolve issues that makes sense and is accessible.
They have literally zero obligation to do so, legally, monetarily, or even morally. If I give out free widgets, you can;t come and complain to me about your widget breaking. You can't come complain to me when I stop handing out the free widgets, either. They're free - you have no right to them, you are not entitled.
So too with free email - Microsoft has to do jack and shit. Their concern right now is the possible loss of customers in your mother-in-law's position, which likely doesn't concern them overly much.
If my Yahoo account disappears tomorrow, I'll be severely annoyed as I'll have to do a lot of updating to get everything sent elsewhere, but Yahoo won't owe me any form of customer service or other form of redress if they do so. After all, since I don't pay anything, I'm not technically a customer at all. Same with your M-I-L and Microsoft.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 3:33 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2013 10:28 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 45 (691276)
02-21-2013 6:22 PM


Free email is free email.
It's not Microsoft's fault that your mother-in-law can't be bothered to learn enough about computers before trying to use one.

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 9:05 PM Jon has replied
 Message 15 by Omnivorous, posted 02-21-2013 11:03 PM Jon has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 9 of 45 (691290)
02-21-2013 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
02-21-2013 6:22 PM


They should have a viable process in place for people to resolve issues when they arise.
It is amazing that so many people have decided that the user should just expect to be fucked.
The issue is that there is no way to resolve an issue when it arises.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 02-21-2013 6:22 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by herebedragons, posted 02-21-2013 9:39 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 11 by Jon, posted 02-21-2013 9:49 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 16 by dwise1, posted 02-21-2013 11:41 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 10 of 45 (691294)
02-21-2013 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Theodoric
02-21-2013 9:05 PM


Theodoric,
I for one sympathize with you. I had a hotmail account about 3 years ago and I got the same message that my account may have been compromised. It asked that I go do a change password, so I did. But when I went to use that password it would not work. I thought maybe I had just remembered the wrong password so I went through the security question route and my security questions no longer worked either. I trying to resolve the issue with MS but all I would get is cut-n-paste responses in a language that barely resembled English. No one could seem to understand anything I was saying.
I finally had to give up and open a new account. Needless to say, I did not open another hotmail account but went to google. Much happier with gmail!
Oh and before my account closed, I was getting 5 or 6 phishing emails a day that were originating from hotmail accounts. This was clearly against their policy and I reported these several times, but they just wouldn't do anything to stop it. It was very annoying. Their customer service was virtually non-existent.
They should have a viable process in place for people to resolve issues when they arise.
Agreed!!! So what if it is a free service. They should support their product.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 9:05 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 02-21-2013 9:51 PM herebedragons has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 45 (691295)
02-21-2013 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Theodoric
02-21-2013 9:05 PM


Jeesh
Jeesh.
How much did your mother-in-law pay for her email service?
It is amazing that so many people have decided that the user should just expect to be fucked.
The only thing anyone has decided is that the user should stop expecting something in return for nothing.
The issue is that there is no way to resolve an issue when it arises.
What is the issue? Your mother-in-law was given something for free. How much use did she get from it before it broke? If she got any use at all, then she is better off than before; and having paid absolutely nothing for this benefit she should shut her mouth and move on.
They should have a viable process in place for people to resolve issues when they arise.
Why? Was all the free shit they already gave you not good enough? Are you really sitting here now and crying because they won't give you more?
Jeesh.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2013 9:05 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 45 (691296)
02-21-2013 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by herebedragons
02-21-2013 9:39 PM


Their customer service was virtually non-existent.
You didn't pay.
You weren't a customer.
You aren't entitled to an email account.
Get over it.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by herebedragons, posted 02-21-2013 9:39 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by herebedragons, posted 02-21-2013 10:36 PM Jon has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 13 of 45 (691301)
02-21-2013 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Rahvin
02-21-2013 6:00 PM


Re: It isn't my email
They have literally zero obligation to do so, legally, monetarily, or even morally. If I give out free widgets, you can;t come and complain to me about your widget breaking.
But there may be a moral issue if it explodes and kills my dog.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2013 6:00 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 14 of 45 (691303)
02-21-2013 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Jon
02-21-2013 9:51 PM


I am over it. I moved on a got a different account somewhere else.
Jeesh.

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 02-21-2013 9:51 PM Jon has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(4)
Message 15 of 45 (691309)
02-21-2013 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
02-21-2013 6:22 PM


Jon writes:
It's not Microsoft's fault that your mother-in-law can't be bothered to learn enough about computers before trying to use one.
I couldn't identify in Theodoric's account the specific ignorance about computers on his m-i-l's part to which you refer.
Could you point it out?
I'm sure MS has no legal obligation--that's why corporate lawyers and fine print terms-of-service check boxes exist.
MS lumbers into the 21st century the same way GM lumbered into the latter half of the 20th: bloated, arrogant, kept afloat by enormous capital accrued through a near monopoly ruthlessly exploited.
Sure, MS doesn't have to support a free product--one they heavily promoted as reliable and gee whiz good, replete with security questions and restore methods reassuringly touted.
And GM didn't have to make cars anyone wanted to buy.
In the long run, the folks truly getting screwed by MS' cavalier attitude are the shareholders, because their reputation for supporting their commercial products is no better. The people who complain, like Theodoric's m-i-l, are doing them a favor...if they'd listen.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 02-21-2013 6:22 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 02-22-2013 6:47 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024