Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The God Hypothesis
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 103 of 150 (692692)
03-06-2013 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by ringo
03-06-2013 11:10 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
The True Ultimate Ideal Reality is irrelevant to his reality.
There is no "Ultimate Reality."
There is only what actually exists, Reality.
Everything else that we might form our own perceptions about is mere fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 03-06-2013 11:10 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 03-07-2013 11:31 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 104 of 150 (692693)
03-06-2013 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Spiritual Anarchist
02-02-2013 8:41 PM


... The hypothesis is that God is a number (8)
Any God Hypothesis would have to redefine God outside of Mythological Constructs completely.
The God Hypothesis
that states the Judaeo-Christian God Designed the Universe. In their God Hypothesis this "God" is a person.
We must not confuse our conception of God, mathematically, with what god actually is.
The Chgristians are right in telling us that we are not privy to a direct contact with Gad, the Father of the Cosmos.
We must utilize an intermediator between our mind and what we can fathom of this God.
The "God Hypothesis" I present here is that Truth, in the form of Mathematical/Logical insights is our mediator.
Edited by kofh2u, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 02-02-2013 8:41 PM Spiritual Anarchist has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 105 of 150 (692697)
03-06-2013 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Straggler
03-06-2013 10:34 AM


... the number is 8?
The number 8?
Yep,...
Eight (8) is the number of God:
H+V+H+I = 5+6+5+10 = 26 = 2+6 = 8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 10:34 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 4:51 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 107 of 150 (692712)
03-06-2013 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Straggler
03-06-2013 4:51 PM


Re: ... the number is 8?
According to this guy the divine number is 7 Link
Seven is the favorite number of God, they say.
I assume this is because "he' used it so much in the Bible,... alongwith twelve and three of course.
But the people who "say' these numbers represent God or Christ are referring to the Gematria.
As you probably do knot know, the Hebrew and Greek languages use letters in their alphabets which are also the same exact symbols they appropriated for their numbers.
Hence, every name or word COULD be understood not as a word, but number.
The use of this duality served as an effective and easy check on passages copied by scribes from an original as they duplicated a new hand written Bible generation after generation, in order to replace those bibles that were worn out.
Rather than check each word, however, the scribes were taught to use what is called the Gematria, or the process of adding each letter/number in a verse and noting only the sum.
You are probably familiar with the requset in Revelation 13 that Christians revert to this gematria and search out the name with the number 666, i.e, 9.
Hence the Great Monogram, YHVH, for god would ultimately sum to 8.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 4:51 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Straggler, posted 03-07-2013 5:31 AM kofh2u has replied
 Message 110 by Eli, posted 03-07-2013 11:33 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 111 of 150 (692783)
03-07-2013 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by ringo
03-07-2013 11:31 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
There is no "Ultimate Reality."
There is only what actually exists, Reality.
Everything else that we might form our own perceptions about is mere fantasy.
That's what I keep saying but you seem to think there's something beyond the reality that we can observe.
No I don't...
No.
I don't.
Reality is by definition what actually exists, and its image is found in the ideal concept we call Truth:
God is all there is, ie; Reality itself... the whole external existence beyond our mind is the almighty God to which all life must bow:
...Truth inside our head, is the Holy Spirit, the image of God, almighty Reality, and is present inside our mind when our thinking correctly images the TRUTH, or the picture of Reality inside our mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 03-07-2013 11:31 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by ringo, posted 03-08-2013 11:43 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 112 of 150 (692786)
03-07-2013 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Straggler
03-07-2013 5:31 AM


Re: ... the number is 8?
So one of the 4 physical forces (i.e. the strong force) has exchange particles (i.e. gluons) that come in 8 varieties (i.e. the colour octet). And if you add up the Hebrew letters YHVH these sum up to 8.
And this you think is indicative of some deep metaphysical relationship between quantum theory and Judaism?
I believe there is a deep (actual) relationship between our Group Theory, concerning QM, and the subtle description in Judaism, of a pattern to the way we think, in general.
I believe that our efforts to understand QM is empirically supporting this hypothesis.
The idea that a fixed repetitious pattern exists, concerning the way we figure things out, is as important if not more so that the Quantum Theories that are demonstrating this pattern.
Look at how the work in Chemistry created a certain pattern of relationships among the Elements as the basis for this Hypothesis, that we as humans, can, actually do, and ought organize and arrange information in accord to this pattern.
It means we already know what we are looking for in every case.
The history of our gradual collection of insights into QM repeat the same initial steps, wherein we first discover four forces and gradually expand our insights to the larger pattern to which i introduced you earlier.
... compared with:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Straggler, posted 03-07-2013 5:31 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Straggler, posted 03-11-2013 8:53 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 113 of 150 (692790)
03-07-2013 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Eli
03-07-2013 11:33 AM


Re: ... the number is 8?
YHWH is a tetragram, not a monogram.
You simply don't know what you are talking about.
Of course one of us MUST not know what he is talking about here, since we disagree.
As I offer you more and more information in what I consider a process of educating you, you respond with the same doubts, unsubstantiated criticisms, and repeated acusations.
You pretend that such a posture assumes that you know more that the teacher here, pulling you along, deeper and deeper in the Kabbalah which you have merely heard about from your Jewish roots.
But of course, you also know that there is no authority in that discipline, and what I tell you must be rationally and much much more thoroughly digested than you give evidence to having done so.
The Tetragramaton is a four letter monogram.
It is NOT a word, but a set of letters which are the Key to the meaning of "god."
These four letters can be arranged in accord with what mathematicians call "permutations."
What I am telling the careful intelligence and unbiased readers here, is that once we see the limitations of these permutations,... once we recall that the ancient Kabbalahists understood from the mystics who preceded them,... that there is some relationship between the idea of Doubles, Simple, and Mother,... the Name of God has mathematical Group Theory meaning:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Eli, posted 03-07-2013 11:33 AM Eli has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Eli, posted 03-09-2013 7:11 AM kofh2u has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 115 of 150 (692925)
03-08-2013 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by ringo
03-08-2013 11:43 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
...Truth inside our head, is the Holy Spirit, the image of God, almighty Reality, and is present inside our mind when our thinking correctly images the TRUTH, or the picture of Reality inside our mind.
ringo:
How is the "Holy Spirit" not "something beyond the reality that we can observe"?
We can not directly experience Reality.
Between our mind and that external thing that is Reality, our senses bring us information about it.
Using that information, we construct various truths about Reality, and form an image of it.
It to that image that we react and interact, as if it were the Reality itself.
As Kant explained this two centuries ago:
Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), in the Critique of Pure Reason, distinguished between objects as phenomena, (immaterial thoughts we conjure to represent them, purely ideas, or spirits), which are objects grasped by human sensibility and understanding, (we think and image them in our mind),...
... and (Kant distinguished between) objects as a thing, as it is in itself, (Reality), or noumena, (distinct from a thing conceived, imaged, as the mental representation),..
The phenomena is what we call Truth which must by definition be congruent to the noumena, or the real thing if we are properly understanding what our senses tell us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by ringo, posted 03-08-2013 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Theodoric, posted 03-08-2013 2:36 PM kofh2u has replied
 Message 137 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 12:10 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 118 of 150 (692991)
03-09-2013 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Theodoric
03-08-2013 2:36 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
Kant was a philosopher. If I find another philosopher with a different idea, do I win.
All I said about Kant was that he very clearly explained the idea under discussion, which concerned the vision we form in our mind that we believe to correspond with the object, thing, or fact out htere, beyond our mind, in the real world.
I had already tried to say the same thing in my own words.
But you people seem to be trying to avoid a clear statement that says between us, our mind, inside this head of ours, we imagine everything to be what we mentally decided really exists "out there."
If you have another philosopher, or you, yourself, who disputes that, no,... it would make you both wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Theodoric, posted 03-08-2013 2:36 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Eli, posted 03-09-2013 9:33 AM kofh2u has not replied
 Message 121 by Theodoric, posted 03-09-2013 10:34 AM kofh2u has replied
 Message 122 by Theodoric, posted 03-09-2013 11:30 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 119 of 150 (692992)
03-09-2013 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by ringo
03-08-2013 11:43 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
God is all there is, ie; Reality itself...
ringo:
How do you observe God?
Empirically.
God can be observed empiricially, through the use of our senses by which we make mental images called "thoughts" about "him."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by ringo, posted 03-08-2013 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by onifre, posted 03-10-2013 12:15 PM kofh2u has replied
 Message 138 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 12:15 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 125 of 150 (693047)
03-10-2013 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Theodoric
03-09-2013 10:34 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
you do realize that Kant is not the end all and be all of philosophy.
That being said you must hold to all of Kant's ideas. Do you agree with all of Kant's ideas?
Who says...????
I merely re-stated what I had said in the words of Kant, who also had said, correctly, that real things, external to us, can not be directly known, but must be envisioned as we use our senses to decide what they seem to be.
This is a necessary intermediate step between us and Reality.
When we get it correct,... when what we think is "out there" is actually out there, we say it is the truth.
In all cases we are always stuck with the images of Reality we have deduced.
Repeating this one concept of Kant's has nothing to do with anything else I may have said or will say,... so far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Theodoric, posted 03-09-2013 10:34 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Eli, posted 03-10-2013 1:27 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 126 of 150 (693048)
03-10-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Theodoric
03-09-2013 11:30 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
All I said about Kant was that he very clearly explained the idea under discussion, which concerned the vision we form in our mind that we believe to correspond with the object, thing, or fact out htere, beyond our mind, in the real world.
Theo:
Are you trying to express the idea of archetypes?
...?
"All I said about Kant was that he very clearly explained the idea under discussion, which concerned the vision we form in our mind that we believe to correspond with the object, thing, or fact out there, beyond our mind, in the real world."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Theodoric, posted 03-09-2013 11:30 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 128 of 150 (693050)
03-10-2013 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by onifre
03-10-2013 12:15 PM


Re: Who farted? God
God can be observed empiricially, through the use of our senses by which we make mental images called "thoughts" about "him."
Which one of our senses detects god? Eyes? Ears? Touch? Certainly not taste, and smell would be really odd.
Can you be specific as to which sense it is?
There's a member here in this forum that claims to audibly here god's voice talk to him - or at least he says it's god's voice. Do you mean something like that? Or do you physically "see" god?
All of the senses are used to empirically establish this "other entity" which sends us messages through those seven sevens, insisting that "I am."
In the womb, we have no idea that even our own body exists.
There is just "us," in the total sensory deprivation of the womb.
Smacked on the ass by a doctor, the pain awakens us to the presence of some other external entity besides ourselves.
We are no longer alone.
If we doubt this, pain, hunger, and thrist reinforce the presence of "something else" existing besides ourselves.
These things together are an almighty Reality we must deal with and recognize thereafter, a god that holds the keys to life and a threat of pain and death.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by onifre, posted 03-10-2013 12:15 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by onifre, posted 03-11-2013 1:45 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 129 of 150 (693051)
03-10-2013 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Eli
03-10-2013 1:27 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
If we say that what we perceive is "truth," we would be wrong.
Perception is not truth. Perception is perception.
Nonsense.
A perception can be true or false.
Even you may have taken Tests where your perception of the right answer was grade correct.
Then all those wrong answers were marked wrong.
Your perception of the lessons was partly right and partly wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Eli, posted 03-10-2013 1:27 PM Eli has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Eli, posted 03-10-2013 2:08 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 130 of 150 (693052)
03-10-2013 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by WarriorArchangel
03-10-2013 5:07 AM


Re: "elusive origin"
Can you self proclaimed evolved, from you don't know from what, tell
me of your elusive origin.....?
The origin of man was in that Act-of-God inside the womb of a surrogate Ape wherein two of the 24 Ape chromosomes chemically fuses together by means of the dust of atomic interactions that created a new species with only 23 Chromosome pairs, ever thereafter.
Having neither human mother or father, this new creature in the Reality that is God went through 22 stages of ascent to modern man:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Book:
The Last Human: A Guide to Twenty-Two Species of Extinct Humans
by G.J.Sawyer, (Author)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by WarriorArchangel, posted 03-10-2013 5:07 AM WarriorArchangel has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Eli, posted 03-10-2013 2:10 PM kofh2u has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024