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Author Topic:   The God Hypothesis
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 150 (689755)
02-04-2013 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Spiritual Anarchist
02-03-2013 7:13 PM


Re: Awareness
Spiritual Anarchist writes:
Because according to Libet my body behaves without me.
Your body is you. There is no "without" you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 02-03-2013 7:13 PM Spiritual Anarchist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-04-2013 12:47 PM ringo has replied
 Message 23 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 02-04-2013 5:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 49 of 150 (689913)
02-06-2013 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Spiritual Anarchist
02-04-2013 5:21 PM


Re: Awareness
Spiritual anarchist writes:
Have you even read about Libets experiment?
How can an experiment detect something "outside" the physical you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 02-04-2013 5:21 PM Spiritual Anarchist has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 50 of 150 (689915)
02-06-2013 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by New Cat's Eye
02-04-2013 12:47 PM


Re: Awareness
Catholic Scientist writes:
It makes it feel like there's a seperation between the me that is in my head and the body that its attached to.
Certainly there's a difference between concious and unconcious activities in your brain. That has nothing to do with anything "outside" of you. It's just that the concious part of "you" isn't concious of what the unconcious part is doing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-04-2013 12:47 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 86 of 150 (692392)
03-02-2013 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by kofh2u
02-14-2013 12:15 AM


Re: The Free Lunch Fallacy
kofh2u writes:
The ID people are off track since Intelligence is the ability to understand Reality, not to manufacture it.
That's what I always say. Intelligence can only operate within the system.
kofh2u writes:
Intelligence is the measure of one ability to state the Truth about reality, or the facts of life that are inherent in reality.We actually measure intelligence by how many true answers we can count out of a questionnaire of one type of another.
Intelligence is the measure of one's ability to operate within the system. It depends on observation of the system and derivation of correct - i.e. "working" - cause-and-effect relationships within the system. If you can figure out what makes it go, you can make it go.
Conversely, intelligence can't operate on anything outside the sytem. What we can't observe, we can't understand. If "Truth" is beyond the understanding of intelligence, then "Truth" is irrelevant to human beings.
If God is "Truth", then God is irrelevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by kofh2u, posted 02-14-2013 12:15 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by kofh2u, posted 03-03-2013 1:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 90 of 150 (692583)
03-05-2013 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by kofh2u
03-03-2013 1:21 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth
kofh2u writes:
Measuring Intelligence is called IQ, which is established ONLY by measuring whether the responses sre true, not contingent upon any system at all.
You have that backwards. "True" is only true within a given system. That's why black people tend to score poorly on "white" IQ tests - because what's "true" in the white culture is not necessarily true in theirs.
kofh2 writes:
Intelligence is Truth, expressed or demonstrated in the thinking of someone.
Intelligence can be demonstrated in a situation where there are no other people - e.g. if you're marooned on an island. In that case, you survive or not depending on how "real" your perception of the "truth" is.
However, in a social situation, truth has a lot to do with consensus. The consensus will say that when the light is red you should stop, even if you perceive the "truth' as full speed ahead.
Real situations often require group truth rather than individual truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by kofh2u, posted 03-03-2013 1:21 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 11:31 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 101 of 150 (692663)
03-06-2013 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by kofh2u
03-05-2013 11:31 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth
kofh2u writes:
You own example of a marroned island make my point quite well.
What if the castaway only thought that he was on an island but he was really on a peninsula and there was a four-lane super-highway only a day's march away. His lack of knowledge/understanding of the True Ultimate Ideal Reality would have no effect on how he lived his life in the reality that he thought he was in. The True Ultimate Ideal Reality is irrelevant to his reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 11:31 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 3:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 109 of 150 (692766)
03-07-2013 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by kofh2u
03-06-2013 3:46 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
There is no "Ultimate Reality."
There is only what actually exists, Reality.
Everything else that we might form our own perceptions about is mere fantasy.
That's what I keep saying but you seem to think there's something beyond the reality that we can observe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 3:46 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 1:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 114 of 150 (692891)
03-08-2013 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by kofh2u
03-07-2013 1:30 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
ringo writes:
That's what I keep saying but you seem to think there's something beyond the reality that we can observe.
No I don't...
And then you say:
kofh2u writes:
...Truth inside our head, is the Holy Spirit, the image of God, almighty Reality, and is present inside our mind when our thinking correctly images the TRUTH, or the picture of Reality inside our mind.
How is the "Holy Spirit" not "something beyond the reality that we can observe"?
kofh2u writes:
God is all there is, ie; Reality itself...
How do you observe God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by kofh2u, posted 03-07-2013 1:30 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:44 PM ringo has replied
 Message 119 by kofh2u, posted 03-09-2013 9:17 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 137 of 150 (693131)
03-11-2013 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by kofh2u
03-08-2013 1:44 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
Using that information, we construct various truths about Reality, and form an image of it.
The keyword there is "we". Objective images - i.e. images that a group of observers can agree on - are more reliable than individual images, which may be fantasies. Since there is no objective consensus about the "Holy Spirit", it can not be considered a "truth about reality". Rather, it is an individual fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:44 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by kofh2u, posted 03-16-2013 3:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 138 of 150 (693134)
03-11-2013 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by kofh2u
03-09-2013 9:17 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
ringo writes:
How do you observe God?
Empirically.
God can be observed empiricially, through the use of our senses by which we make mental images called "thoughts" about "him."
"Empirically" implies consensus - i.e. that you can demonstrate your observation to others. If you can't, your mental images are just fantasies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by kofh2u, posted 03-09-2013 9:17 AM kofh2u has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by 1.61803, posted 03-11-2013 3:52 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 150 of 150 (693580)
03-18-2013 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by kofh2u
03-16-2013 3:48 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:
The argument I would make is that, the Unconscious mind is reconstructed genetically, and born again into the generation of the living.
Nobody here is arguing against the idea of an unconscious mind. However, there is no evidence that it has any relation to the idea of "God".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by kofh2u, posted 03-16-2013 3:48 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
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