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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CoolBeans Member (Idle past 3641 days) Posts: 196 From: Honduras Joined: |
Ok ok ok
By gun control what do you actually mean. We do not have this law in my country or there is not an actual debate over this issue over there. If by control you mean that only weapons such as handguns, hunting rifles and shot guns would be permitted then I agree but if its more strict then I dont. I will not read this whole thread so it would be nice if I had knowledge of the point of view of both parties.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2978 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
It has to do with the means to actually get the guns. Who can and cannot own a gun. Background checks. Mental stability. Age limits. Closing off loopholes that currently exist with the gun laws, like what happens at gun shows (you can google that).
If by control you mean that only weapons such as handguns, hunting rifles and shot guns would be permitted then I agree but if its more strict then I dont. Right, but who gets to own those weapons is very important. As it is there is no universal gun law in the US, it's all broken down into state laws. So that's one main focus. - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Omnivorous writes: stratospheric levels. Many a foot has eased off their pedals after their owners' insurance rates went sky high. Jon writes: But that's not car insurance; that's the fear of car insurance. Quite a different thing. That's not fear of car insurance. That's the actual reality that you can no longer afford to continue a pattern of behavior because your car insurance is too costly.
Of course; the fear of guns will do just that: get you knee-jerk, freedom-quenching legislation passed in the blink of an eye. I note that slowing down and driving carefully would not be a knee jerk response, but is actually the rational thing to do. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3847 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
kofh: The Logical/Mathematic Facts are that swift, immediate, well advertised and known death sentences to killers stop murders. Nuke:Exactly as I expected from you. Logic full of gaping holes. Thanks for obliging me. Yeah, yeah, yeah,... but you fail to list the holes and refuse to see that murders decline when death sentences are carry out timely and often. And, you protect the children of Single Mothers who are the actual killers who use stolen or blackmarket guns to kill people by no acknowledging that Stats which bear this out.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3847 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
I note that slowing down and driving carefully would not be a knee jerk response, but is actually the rational thing to do.
Do you realize that hald as many people are killed by autos since Drunk Drivers have een taken off the road, fined, imprisoned, and punished???? Can't you loigically connect the dots and apply this to gun users who kill people?
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Can't you loigically connect the dots and apply this to gun users who kill people? Are you truly unable to see any of the missing items needed to make an actual argument leading to your conclusion? 1. It turns out that we actually do punish murderers already. It's also the case that the punishment for those so convicted begins much earlier when they are not sentenced to death. 2. You cannot use the MADD data to prove that execution is a deterrent because we don't execute people for drunk driving even when they kill innocent people. 3. Are you on some kind of crusade to be wrong about every topic? You are about most of the way there. About seven topics left and you are done. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Because history has shown us that governments never confiscate guns; obviously... Are you going to support this or not? I mean I would hate to think you would post something you can't support.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Because history has shown us that governments never confiscate guns; obviously...
Are you going to support this or not? Um, there are countries where The People are not permitted to have guns. Are you just quibbling over the word "confiscate"? Regardless of whether or not registration actually does lead to confiscation, confiscation would require registration so preventing registration would actually prevent confiscation.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
So I've gotten around to looking into this claim that "having a gun in the house makes you less safe, not more safe".
From the study you sited:
quote: So, I go to look into the literature. #3 and #4 are dead links. Some of the other ones say they're blocked. I finally get to GUN OWNERSHIP AS A RISK FACTOR FOR HOMICIDE IN THE HOME quote: They used 388 homicide from only three counties. They "controlled them for characteristics" and then finally found an association. Is that really something we can expect to be representative of "everyone"? Is the data for this really strong enough to state as a matter of fact that a gun in your house does makes you less safe? If this was something that you didn't want to believe, wouldn't you have gone through it and torn it apart to see how good the data actually is? Edited by Catholic Scientist, : typo corrected: wrote #16 instead of #14.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Are you just quibbling over the word "confiscate"? Quibble? That is the whole basis of his argument. Show examples of government confiscation of guns. Lets look at them and analyze them. I keep hearing this argument, but it seems the people that bring it up never want to discuss it. Lets look at the governments that confiscated guns and analyze the circumstances and see how they pertain to the US. Is that really too fucking much to ask from the people making the argument?
confiscation would require registration so preventing registration would actually prevent confiscation.
Now that is just plain stupid. The government confiscates all the marijuana it can but marijuana isn't registered. You do realize that in order for there to be gun confiscation, laws would have to be passed. We cannot even get a gun registration passed how the fuck is there going to be legislation passed to confiscate? Or is there going to be a freaking black helicopter, extrajudicial confiscation?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
What links are you a talking about? The references?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I keep hearing this argument What, exactly, do you think the argument is?
Now that is just plain stupid. The government confiscates all the marijuana it can but marijuana isn't registered. Right now, it is literally easier for me to buy marijuana than it is for me to buy 9mm bullets. The government has failed to confiscate marijuana.
You do realize that in order for there to be gun confiscation, laws would have to be passed. We cannot even get a gun registration passed how the fuck is there going to be legislation passed to confiscate? I thought that was the point; If we don't allow registration then there's no way they can confiscate.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
What links are you a talking about? The references? Yeah. For example, #4 is titled "Does owning a firearm increase or decrease the risk of death?" and there's a link to the "FREE Full Text", but it doesn't work.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
What, exactly, do you think the argument is?
Are you even reading what you responded to? Go back to what Jon posted. It is really that easy.
Right now, it is literally easier for me to buy marijuana than it is for me to buy 9mm bullets.
How is this an argument for you? This is a complete non-sequitor and a strawman.
If we don't allow registration then there's no way they can confiscate.
Bullshit. Random stops. Listen for gunfire. Reports from people. The same way they confiscate drugs.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Are you even reading what you responded to? Go back to what Jon posted. It is really that easy. I already did before I posted. I'm not seeing much of an argument. That's why I asked what you think it is. I'd rather be on the same page.
Right now, it is literally easier for me to buy marijuana than it is for me to buy 9mm bullets.
How is this an argument for you? This is a complete non-sequitor and a strawman. The governments "confiscation" of marijuana has done nothing to prevent me from getting it. I thought we were talking about the government getting guns out of the hands of people.
If we don't allow registration then there's no way they can confiscate.
Bullshit. Random stops. Listen for gunfire. Reports from people. The same way they confiscate drugs. Oh, okay. I was under the impression that you wanted confiscation that actually prevented people from getting guns. If you're willing to accept a complete failure of a confiscation, then I'd argue that you're wasting time and money rather than being leery of actually loosing my gun.
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