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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Taq
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Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 2086 of 5179 (693372)
03-14-2013 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2085 by Faith
03-14-2013 5:27 PM


By that reasoning you could justify absolutely anything, and no doubt do. If the founders' reasoning means nothing, hey, sure, take away our guns because YOU want to, the rest of us don't count, the founders don't count, you make the rules.
Two points can be made.
First, none of the founders stated that the right to bear arms gave anyone the ability to carry any firearm they wished whenever they wished. Regulation of who can carry and what they can carry is entirely constitutional and in line with what the founders intended.
Second, we have gone against the founders on many other issues, and we have the amendments to prove it. If it was left to the founders, you would not be able to vote, just as one example. If we so choose, we can amend the constitution to rework the right to bear arms no matter if that is what the founders intended or not. At the same time, I fully agree that we would need to amend the constitution if we were going to ban privately owned firearms altogether.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2085 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 5:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2088 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 6:27 PM Taq has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2087 of 5179 (693373)
03-14-2013 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2077 by New Cat's Eye
03-14-2013 3:49 PM


Re: Question...
And our entire Bill of Rights is about giving more rights to individuals at the expense of the State.
Not quite all. The tenth amendment gives residual powers to the States and then possible to the people at the expense of the federal government. In a number of situations, the States hog the power and the citizens get none. For example, prior to the passage of the 14th amendment, the states could ignore most of the Bill of rights despite the fact that the federal government could not. Even today several provisions of the bill of rights are not applied to state governments.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2088 of 5179 (693377)
03-14-2013 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2086 by Taq
03-14-2013 5:54 PM


You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Sure, by now there may be enough stupid people in the country to vote down the Second Amendment, give it a try. Just don't overthrow the Constitution without following the rules. But I do think that's exactly what they're gearing up to do in Washington.
Just as a reminder, the point was that the founders saw the need for the Second Amendment as protection against tyrannical government. That's what most of those quotes in Message 57 refer to, and the article at the bottom covers the history of government oppression of unarmed citizens as the major reason for the Second Amendment.
The film Innocents Betrayed that I also put up covers the history of government tyranny against their own citizens in the twentieth century that killed 170 million and in all cases involved disarming the people, licensing and registering guns and confiscating them.
The gun control people we are hearing from now are siding with the oppressors and murderers in all those instances whether you know it or not.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2086 by Taq, posted 03-14-2013 5:54 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2089 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-14-2013 6:59 PM Faith has replied
 Message 2090 by Taq, posted 03-14-2013 7:00 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 2091 by Rahvin, posted 03-14-2013 7:01 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 2093 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 8:59 PM Faith has replied

Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(1)
Message 2089 of 5179 (693379)
03-14-2013 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2088 by Faith
03-14-2013 6:27 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Faith writes:
Just as a reminder, the point was that the founders saw the need for the Second Amendment as protection against tyrannical government.
Faith, you never answered me on these points, so I will ask again. So, the purpose of the second amendment is protection against a tyrannical government, so we can basically go to war against our government if we need to, correct? This is your contention?
If it is, I repeat my early question:
What on this planet known as Earth do you think that the citizens of the United States can do if the government decides it wants to actually control us?
What can we do against this:
Hunter Killer Drone Strike
Or how about against this:
Terminator Weaponry
Or this:
MOAB or Massive Ordnance Air Blast
Or the Sensor Fuzed Weapon:
Sensor Fuzed Weapon
Or, even the big boy:
Nuclear Explosion
We are all worried about other countries gaining access to a nuclear weapon, but not concerned when our nation has hundreds to thousands of them. Look, maybe in 1776 it was for protection against a tyrannical government, but nowadays you are simply thinking of a pipe dream that when you and your friends try to stop it, if it ever were to happen, you will all simply get yourselves killed and get to go meet your maker.
We have allowed the government to outstrip our capabilities by so much that the idea of revolution or forcing the government to bow to the people through force is long dead and gone. Ask the South how great it works out when you try to pick a fight with the United States government, I am sure there are a few stories about that thing that happened in the 1860's. And that was even before we let the government run rampant with weapons tech. The option that we have remaining to us is through the democratic channels that the founders set this country up with and those that have been added to the Constitution since.
So, please if you could inform me otherwise of how the people would stand any chance whatsoever, I will gladly listen to it. But, as far as I see it, if the Big, Bad Government wants to put the fear of Jehovah into us, then they damn well can, and they damn well will and no amount of guns, homemade bombs, homemade grenades, or any other weaponry that the American People can get their hands on will stop it.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2088 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 6:27 PM Faith has replied

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 2090 of 5179 (693380)
03-14-2013 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2088 by Faith
03-14-2013 6:27 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Sure, by now there may be enough stupid people in the country to vote down the Second Amendment, give it a try. Just don't overthrow the Constitution without following the rules. But I do think that's exactly what they're gearing up to do in Washington.
None of the gun regulations proposed thus far overthrow the constitution.
Just as a reminder, the point was that the founders saw the need for the Second Amendment as protection against tyrannical government.
Courts have ruled that gun regulations do not prevent people from defending themselves.
The film Innocents Betrayed that I also put up covers the history of government tyranny against their own citizens in the twentieth century that killed 170 million and in all cases involved disarming the people, licensing and registering guns and confiscating them.
Now you are going into full paranoia mode, as usual.
The UK has some of the strictest gun laws. Are they being oppressed? Absolutely not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2088 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 6:27 PM Faith has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(2)
Message 2091 of 5179 (693381)
03-14-2013 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2088 by Faith
03-14-2013 6:27 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
If the US government flipped into Holocaust mode and instituted martial law, how well do you think individuals with firearms would hold up?
Let's imagine, for the sake of argument, that you and most of the country is armed to the teeth with all the handguns, rifles, and ammunition you can fit in your homes.
Would you be able to stop a tank from just bulldozing your home for your resistance?
How about if all of your neighbors tried to help? Could you stand up against the US Army? The National Guard? Even your nearest SWAT team?
How did those Branch Davidians do at Waco?
There weren't even any tanks.
Now we have drones added to the mix. If the US government turns, they don't even need to send a person - they can just send a Hellfire missile fired from a remote drone to take out any pathetic resistance.
Your guns, Faith, in the actual event of massive government tyranny, are effective only as a means of committing suicide. Not of resistance. We've armed our military too strongly to resist with firearms.
Against the military, our weapons have already been effectively taken away, because weapons have leaped so far beyond the realm of firearms that we might as well just have a bunch of butter knives for all the good they would do in your nightmare scenario.
The Second Amendment's interpretation as a means for the populace to remain armed in preparation for a possible revolution against future tyranny became outdated the day that the US military became a global force.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2092 of 5179 (693382)
03-14-2013 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2091 by Rahvin
03-14-2013 7:01 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
The Second Amendment's interpretation as a means for the populace to remain armed in preparation for a possible revolution against future tyranny became outdated the day that the US military became a global force.
Sadly, some people think the movie "Red Dawn" is a documentary.
WOLVERINES!!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2091 by Rahvin, posted 03-14-2013 7:01 PM Rahvin has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(3)
Message 2093 of 5179 (693386)
03-14-2013 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2088 by Faith
03-14-2013 6:27 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Sure, by now there may be enough stupid people in the country to vote down the Second Amendment, give it a try. Just don't overthrow the Constitution without following the rules.
I don't know anyone who is pro-gun control trying to "overthrow the Constitution" much less doing it through force and without following the 'rules' of passing laws through our legislative branch. If you know any, clue us in.
Just as a reminder, the point was that the founders saw the need for the Second Amendment as protection against tyrannical government.
Yes and no, that was a reason but not the only reason that the Second Amendment was included in the Bill of Rights. Militias of armed citizens were thought at the time to be a deterrent to prevent a tyrannical government from coming into power in the first place. However, at the same time these militias were seen as a way to prevent invasion and suppress insurrection as well.
US Constitution writes:
The Congress shall have Power To ... provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia ...
The gun control people we are hearing from now are siding with the oppressors and murderers in all those instances whether you know it or not.
Really? Those parents and relatives who lost children, sisters, brothers, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends, etc due to gun violence, 'side with oppressors and murderers' because they believe in gun regulation and background checks?
You may want to think about what you say before your stick your self-righteous, condescending foot in your mouth.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2088 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 6:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2097 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 9:28 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 2094 of 5179 (693387)
03-14-2013 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2091 by Rahvin
03-14-2013 7:01 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
If the US government flipped into Holocaust mode and instituted martial law, how well do you think individuals with firearms would hold up?
Let's imagine, for the sake of argument, that you and most of the country is armed to the teeth with all the handguns, rifles, and ammunition you can fit in your homes.
Would you be able to stop a tank from just bulldozing your home for your resistance?
How about if all of your neighbors tried to help? Could you stand up against the US Army? The National Guard? Even your nearest SWAT team?
The US military has tens of thousand land attack missiles, thousands of planes with tens of thousand of bombs and land attack rockets and missiles, tens of thousands of tanks, hundreds of thousands of infantry and artillery (25mm, 50 cal, etc). No amount of assault rifles and high capacity small arms magazines would do any good against this overwhelming force.
This is not even counting the 5000+ nuclear weapons each of which can take out an entire city.
The framers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights did not foresee a buildup of a standing US military to our present day capabilities. Thus, effectively making the purpose of the Second Amendment to 'topple a tyrannical US government' null and void event if that is what was originally intended.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2091 by Rahvin, posted 03-14-2013 7:01 PM Rahvin has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2095 of 5179 (693388)
03-14-2013 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2089 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-14-2013 6:59 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Faith, you never answered me on these points, so I will ask again. So, the purpose of the second amendment is protection against a tyrannical government, so we can basically go to war against our government if we need to, correct? This is your contention?
I only think in terms of defensive moves, myself, not a new revolution, and fairly modest defensive moves at that. I may be out of step with others on the same side of this, though, and since I don't have a gun or much knowledge of warfare I really do defer to others to answer these questions.
My own is a very simple answer: If government wants to round us up and send us to camps or something like that, it would be better if households were armed for resistance, and whole neighborhoods perhaps.
If they are so out to get us that they send killer drones or heavy artillery after us then there's nothing we can do about it, but worrying about that eventuality is no excuse for us not to have whatever weaponry is feasible short of that.
It looks to me like our democratic channels are failing us more and more, but be that as it may, to have any hope of surviving a government that makes war on some part of the citizenry would depend a great deal on a VOCAL uprising of The People against that government. I'd even expect some of those here to stand up for evil ol me if they came after me.
But if things get bad enough that may not work anyway. In all those countries where for instance soldiers refused to fire on the people the soldiers were summarily executed along with them.
We do what we can. The argument makes no sense that we should give up ordinary means of defense just because we COULD be blown away by major means.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
2Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2089 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-14-2013 6:59 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

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Eli
Member (Idle past 3492 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


(3)
Message 2096 of 5179 (693389)
03-14-2013 9:27 PM


I see a very valid point in all this and that is one of a self contradcting agenda.
Now, I admit I am about to make a sweeping generalization and have no stats to back this up, but from what I am hearing from a certain large group of individuals is 2 things:
1) A need for guns in case of government tyranny.
2) An outcry against cutting spending on Defense.
Can someone explain how these two positions can rationally occupy the same worldview?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2101 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 10:08 PM Eli has seen this message but not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2097 of 5179 (693390)
03-14-2013 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2093 by DevilsAdvocate
03-14-2013 8:59 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
don't know anyone who is pro-gun control trying to "overthrow the Constitution" much less doing it through force and without following the 'rules' of passing laws through our legislative branch. If you know any, clue us in.
Well, public sentiment seems to be turning in that direction, and even a "scholarly" paper I encountered somewhere, wonder if I can find it, that simply declares the Second Amendment outdated, and the Constitution itself. That's like groundwork for doing it in altogether if such ideas are pursued. There's enough popular opposition at the moment but give it time.
Yes, militias, formed of the people, were considered to be THE defense of the nation in the minds of most back then. So?
The reason I put up the quotes of the founders, however, was to show their pretty much unanimous concern for the people's need to defend against tyrannical government.
Really? Those parents and relatives who lost children, sisters, brothers, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends, etc due to gun violence, 'side with oppressors and murderers' because they believe in gun regulation and background checks?
You may want to think about what you say before your stick your self-righteous, condescending foot in your mouth.
I might suggest the same to you with more justice.
I do not believe this gun control push is anything but trumped up by vested interests, not by the victims of these murderers. The idea is stupid, it will not protect anyone, it's just a ploy to take guns away from people they want to shut up, but they've done such a good propaganda campaign, playing on emotion and misplaced moral outrage, that people like you say such evil things against people like me. Those who buy into this ploy ARE siding with the oppressors and tyrants and they've sure done a good job of propagandizing you and the others here. WAKE UP.
PS: Seems to me that the energy behind this push is some kind of demonstration that the powers that be don't like the idea of being confronted by an armed household or neighborhood despite all their advanced weaponry. Another argument for keeping our guns.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2093 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 8:59 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2099 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 9:59 PM Faith has replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 2098 of 5179 (693393)
03-14-2013 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2095 by Faith
03-14-2013 9:19 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
My own is a very simple answer: If government wants to round us up and send us to camps or something like that, it would be better if households were armed for resistance, and whole neighborhoods perhaps.
If the government wanted to round you up, you would stand no chance to resist. This is exactly what happened with the Jews, even those with weapons stood no chance against the massive German military state. It is a fallacy and a lie to think otherwise. Only through the military actions of Allied countries were the remaining Jews able to be saved.
If they are so out to get us that they send killer drones or heavy artillery after us then there's nothing we can do about it, but worrying about that eventuality is no excuse for us not to have whatever weaponry is feasible short of that.
Why, what is the purpose if you have no earthly way possible to protect yourself from hell on earth. The purpose of personal weapons in todays day and age is to protect home and hearth from criminals and deviants not from the US military.
I am as much a proponent of the 2nd Amendment as any other US citizen. I have a family to protect as well. But I am not ignorant enough to think that I could ever protect myself from the US military if they wanted to kill me. That is just inane and ridiculous to even think about.
It looks to me like our democratic channels are failing us more and more, but be that as it may, to have any hope of surviving a government that makes war on some part of the citizenry would depend a great deal on a VOCAL uprising of The People against that government. I'd even expect some of those here to stand up for evil ol me if they came after me.
Vocal uprising, protests, and legal democratic channels are not in jeopardy. Just because you disagree with other citizens who legally are challenging our current gun laws does not give you the right to commit armed resistance against the government. What specifically do you see occurring that you think that entitles you to take up arms against the government?
In all those countries where for instance soldiers refused to fire on the people the soldiers were summarily executed along with them.
Really!?! You are going to compare modern, democratic US with Nazi Germany or Stalin Russia? What leaps of logic are you using to equate us with these despot regimes?
The argument makes no sense that we should give up ordinary means of defense just because we COULD be blown away by major means.
How is universal background checks and regulating military grade weapons that were not even thought of 200 years ago removing 'ordinary' means of defense. You can defend yourself against home invasion or bodily harm just as easily with a shotgun, rifle or hand gun as you can with an AR-15 with a 50 rds magazine. Do you think that if you don't have a military grade assault rifle that you can't defend yourself?
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2095 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 9:19 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2100 by kofh2u, posted 03-14-2013 10:03 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 2099 of 5179 (693396)
03-14-2013 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2097 by Faith
03-14-2013 9:28 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Well, public sentiment seems to be turning in that direction, and even a "scholarly" paper I encountered somewhere, wonder if I can find it, that simply declares the Second Amendment outdated, and the Constitution itself. That's like groundwork for doing it in altogether if such ideas are pursued. There's enough popular opposition at the moment but give it time.
So you cite a paper which you don't even have available as a source for fear mongering.
Yes, militias, formed of the people, were considered to be THE defense of the nation in the minds of most back then. So?
My point exactly. So what. What is your point.
The reason I put up the quotes of the founders, however, was to show their pretty much unanimous concern for the people's need to defend against tyrannical government.
Which is moot in todays, day and age. You having these weapons is not going to prevent a tyrannical government from taking place. You participating in an democratic elective government will.
Those who buy into this ploy ARE siding with the oppressors and tyrants and they've sure done a good job of propagandizing you and the others here. WAKE UP.
You have no idea what my beliefs and philosophy on gun control are.
Pretty telling and hypocritical coming from some who doesn't own a weapon telling someone who actually does own one and who has fired some of the most lethal weapons on how wrong they are about gun regulations. Your ignorance and self-righteous bigotry astounds me.
Seems to me that the energy behind this push is some kind of demonstration that the powers that be don't like the idea of being confronted by an armed household or neighborhood despite all their advanced weaponry. Another argument for keeping our guns
So you want to play with the big boys. So the case you are building is that even assault rifles and the like are not enough. Why not the average citizen own bazookas, missile launchers, 25mm gun emplacements and the like in their front yard. If you want to play war with the US military there is no hold barred for the 2nd Amendment. Your point is ridiculous. You are no match for the US military unless you have all the weapons at the US military's disposal including nuclear weapons. We did this with other countries and it did not work, it was called the arms race. It is a never ending proliferation of weapons. What makes you think it will work with US citizen Smith vs the US military?
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2097 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 9:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2102 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:15 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2100 of 5179 (693397)
03-14-2013 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2098 by DevilsAdvocate
03-14-2013 9:45 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
If the government wanted to round you up, you would stand no chance to resist.
What if the government wanted to take sides with the inner cities and the Unions, rising up against the rural and suburban Americans and simply "nationalizing" all property by force?
Weapons for resistance would be to those "haves" as was the minutemen to the independence day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2098 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 9:45 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

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 Message 2103 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 10:18 PM kofh2u has not replied
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