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Author Topic:   The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil.
Rei
Member (Idle past 5210 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 31 of 258 (69220)
11-25-2003 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:15 PM


Up next: A plug for a show on our sister network about how the moon landing was faked...

------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:15 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 258 (69227)
11-25-2003 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Primordial Egg
11-25-2003 7:59 AM


maybe he's repressing it
Mind you, looking at this site which gives some pointers as to the symptoms one might expect from demon possession:

Contents:

Causes and Effects of Demon Possession
1. Interest in the occult
2. Demonic favors
3. Demonic games
...
4. Pornographic and obscene materials
5. Mind-altering drugs
6. Multiple-personalities (MPD), schizophrenia, and hearing voices
7. Demon possession and homosexuality
8. Homosexual clergypersons
9. Demons and criminal behavior
...
10. Sex crimes against children
11. Repressed childhood memories of sexual molestation
12. Suicide
13. Godless Rock music
14. Spontaneous Human Combustion

It doesn't say anything about not eating or drinking for unfeasible periods of time. Maybe one for the list?

PE


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Primordial Egg, posted 11-25-2003 7:59 AM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by zephyr, posted 11-25-2003 2:39 PM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 2747 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 33 of 258 (69236)
11-25-2003 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Primordial Egg
11-25-2003 2:02 PM


Re: maybe he's repressing it
Does anyone find it interesting that the supposed experts don't know the difference between a cause and an effect?

To me, it says that their association is not based on well-founded knowledge, but rather a dogmatic abhorrence for all those things and the corresponding need to associate them all, even if one doesn't know how or why they're related.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Primordial Egg, posted 11-25-2003 2:02 PM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

  
JustinC
Member (Idle past 3041 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 34 of 258 (69246)
11-25-2003 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Rand Al'Thor
11-25-2003 2:57 AM


quote:
Hey, JustinCy, I really hope that you’re joking but if your not and if you think that ejaculation and teen pregnancy is caused by "Demons" I think you need to take a step back and seriously think about what you are saying.
Though I try not to make fun of people for their believes I have to ask you, do you also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause?

I was joking. Although, one of my favorite books is "The Demon-Haunted World", but that's a little different.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 11-25-2003 2:57 AM Rand Al'Thor has not yet responded

    
Peter
Member (Idle past 2120 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 35 of 258 (69349)
11-26-2003 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by sidelined
11-24-2003 11:10 PM


I find it hard to believe that anyone accepts anything
on assumption ... but they do.

The issue of the dangers of blind belief are vast.

The issue here was rejecting something without evidence
against it.

I agree that acts carried out under the assumption of demonic
possesion are often heinous -- I don't think anyone here would
dispute that.

I have to disagree that we have any direct evidence against
(or for) the existence of demons.

Absence of evidence NEVER builds sufficeintly to be evidence
of absence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by sidelined, posted 11-24-2003 11:10 PM sidelined has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by sidelined, posted 11-26-2003 7:17 AM Peter has responded

    
sidelined
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 258 (69353)
11-26-2003 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Peter
11-26-2003 5:26 AM


Peter

I am going to include one other death that occured as I found in the Skeptical Inquirer

"1997, Bronx,New York: A five year old girl died after her mother and grandmother forced her to drink a lethal cocktailcontaining ammonia,vinegar, and olive oil and then bound and gagged her with duct tape. The two women claimed that they were merely trying to poison a demon that had infested the little girl several days earlier."
Why do things like this not make the #1 story across the nation as a wake-up call to people who place belief in such things.Perhaps they need to make graphic to these people how incredibly horrible and painful the death must have been not to mention the emotion horror of your mother and grandmother being the ones doing it.

I wonder if anybody out there who believes in demon possesion can tell me how they these people made an error in distinguishing demons from some other event.Is there some special formula they have for working it out? Come on guys this sort of story really brings out a need for justification.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Peter, posted 11-26-2003 5:26 AM Peter has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Eta_Carinae, posted 11-26-2003 8:09 AM sidelined has not yet responded
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Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 2572 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 37 of 258 (69357)
11-26-2003 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by sidelined
11-26-2003 7:17 AM


Because some misguided fools are still in the Dark Ages.

There was the case about 3 months ago in Chicago where the pastor (church worker?) sat on the 4 year old boy to 'cast' the demon out and the little boy died of suffocation.

This is ridiculous.

And I don't want to accuse, but I am going to anyway, it is the fault of fringe churches. It is your idiot, fringe, Baptists, Pentecostalists etc. that really believe all this crap. The mainstream Christian churches left this mumbo jumbo behind 100-150 years ago but the fundamentalist nutcases (and show me one who isn't) still rabidly believe the demon nonsense.

I know freedom of religion is one thing, but murdering a child is another.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by sidelined, posted 11-26-2003 7:17 AM sidelined has not yet responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 258 (69362)
11-26-2003 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Rrhain
11-24-2003 2:07 AM


Rr, Do you consider ABC, CBS and NBC any better than Fox for bias? I didn't, btw say that Fox was perfect or totally unbiased as you falsy infer, but I think it beats the other big three.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Rrhain, posted 11-24-2003 2:07 AM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by NosyNed, posted 11-26-2003 10:35 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 42 by Rrhain, posted 11-26-2003 6:32 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 258 (69365)
11-26-2003 8:57 AM


2. I'm sure, beginning from the time of Jesus til now, much good has been accomplished by knowing of the evil empire. For example, the tribe in New Gineau was much blessed having the demonic oppression removed from their village. Thanks to the missionaries, nearly all of the cannabalism has been erradicated from the planet.

2. Ultra evil people like Son of Sam, Charles Manson, Jimmy Jones, etc attest to the possibility of an organized evil invisible empire. These are just a few.
Also, Hitler was involved in the occult, if this means anything to anyone.


  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8848
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 40 of 258 (69385)
11-26-2003 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
11-26-2003 8:51 AM


I do happen to consider ABC, CBS and NBC a bit better than Fox. However, I think it is pretty silly to think that any TV source (including PBS) is the right way to find out real, in depth, accurate information about most things.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 11-26-2003 8:51 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 2120 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 41 of 258 (69386)
11-26-2003 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by sidelined
11-26-2003 7:17 AM


I don't want to be misunderstood here.

I neither condone, nor agree with any excorcism
ativity that I have ever heard of -- and that includes
the Catholic churches formal evidences of possesion
(most likely set aside by now in any case).

All I am saying is that we have no evidence that demons
exist or do not exist.

The safest assumption when confronted with an unusual
malady is that it is perfectly natural and treat it
accordingly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by sidelined, posted 11-26-2003 7:17 AM sidelined has not yet responded

    
Rrhain
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 42 of 258 (69453)
11-26-2003 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
11-26-2003 8:51 AM


buzsaw responds to me:

quote:
Do you consider ABC, CBS and NBC any better than Fox for bias?

Yes. The survey explicitly shows it. In looking at the various major news outlets, Fox had the worst rates of viewers coming away misinformed:

Fox:   80% at least one misperception, 45% average
CBS:   71% at least one misperception, 36% average
ABC:   61% at least one misperception, 30% average
CNN:   55% at least one misperception, 31% average
NBC:   55% at least one misperception, 30% average
Print: 47% at least one misperception, 25% average
NPR:   23% at least one misperception, 11% average

quote:
I didn't, btw say that Fox was perfect or totally unbiased as you falsy infer,

Indeed, you said "most unbiased and objective," and I was going off of that. The point I directly stated was that you may think something, but that doesn't make it true.

And the reality is that you are completely mistaken. Not only is Fox not the "most unbiased and objective," it is the most biased and most unobjective. Its viewers are the most likely to be misinformed about events.

How can a news source be "unbiased and objective" if it is lying to its viewers?

quote:
but I think it beats the other big three.

And you'd be wrong.

It is the worst major news source out there.

------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 11-26-2003 8:51 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 367 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 43 of 258 (70045)
11-30-2003 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
11-22-2003 9:33 PM


quote:
Ned, a whole lot of us consider Fox to be the most unbiased and objective newscasts of the Networks.

LOLOLOL!!!

Buz, let me tell you about how "unbiased" Fox News is.

Zhimbo and I were in Japan this past summer to attend the wedding of a very close, lifelong friend.

He is a professor at a branch of the University of Maryland there and is a subcontracor for the US military.

Because of his being employed by the US military, we were able to stay at a military hotel in Tokyo during our week-long visit.

Fox News was running 24 hours a day on one of the television channels there, and do you know what their tag line was, being viewed in the context of a US militaryhotel?

"Fox News: Part of the Team"

Tell me how considering themselves "part of the military team" is unbiased and ovjective, Buz.

Please explain that to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2003 9:33 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 367 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 44 of 258 (70046)
11-30-2003 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
11-23-2003 11:01 PM


quote:
You're fudging, Crashy. Where's your "weight of evidence" that demons don't exist?

Where is your positive evidence that they do exist?

Do you believe that mental illness, epilepsy, and a bunch of other diseases are caused by demons?

Why or why not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2003 11:01 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Buzsaw, posted 12-26-2003 8:58 PM nator has responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 367 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 45 of 258 (70047)
11-30-2003 9:36 AM


Buz, have you heard of an organization called "Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR)?

It is a nonpartisan media watchdog group which seeks to expose inaccuracy in all media.

the following is a report about the extreme right-wing bias of Fox news.

http://www.fair.org/extra/0108/fox-main.html

An excerpt:

Fox's founder and president, Roger Ailes, was for decades one of the savviest and most pugnacious Republican political operatives in Washington, a veteran of the Nixon and Reagan campaigns. Ailes is most famous for his role in crafting the elder Bush's media strategy in the bruising 1988 presidential race. With Ailes' help, Bush turned a double-digit deficit in the polls into a resounding win by targeting the GOP's base of white male voters in the South and West, using red-meat themes like Michael Dukakis' "card-carrying" membership in the ACLU, his laissez-faire attitude toward flag-burning, his alleged indifference to the pledge of allegiance--and, of course, paroled felon Willie Horton.

Described by fellow Bush aide Lee Atwater as having "two speeds--attack and destroy," Ailes once jocularly told a Time reporter (8/22/88): "The only question is whether we depict Willie Horton with a knife in his hand or without it." Later, as a producer for Rush Limbaugh's short-lived TV show, he was fond of calling Bill Clinton the "hippie president" and lashing out at "liberal bigots" (Washington Times, 5/11/93). It is these two sensibilities above all--right-wing talk radio and below-the-belt political campaigning--that Ailes brought with him to Fox, and his stamp is evident in all aspects of the network's programming.

Fox daytime anchor David Asman is formerly of the right-wing Wall Street Journal editorial page and the conservative Manhattan Institute. The host of Fox News Sunday is Tony Snow, a conservative columnist and former chief speechwriter for the first Bush administration. Eric Breindel, previously the editorial-page editor of the right-wing New York Post, was senior vice president of Fox's parent company, News Corporation, until his death in 1998; Fox News Channel's senior vice president is John Moody, a long-time journalist known for his staunch conservative views.

Fox's managing editor is Brit Hume, a veteran TV journalist and contributor to the conservative American Spectator and Weekly Standard magazines. Its top-rated talkshow is hosted by Bill O'Reilly, a columnist for the conservative WorldNetDaily.com and a registered Republican (that is, until a week before the Washington Post published an article revealing his party registration--12/13/00).

The abundance of conservatives and Republicans at Fox News Channel does not seem to be a coincidence. In 1996, Andrew Kirtzman, a respected New York City cable news reporter, was interviewed for a job with Fox and says that management wanted to know what his political affiliation was. "They were afraid I was a Democrat," he told the Village Voice (10/15/96). When Kirtzman refused to tell Fox his party ID, "all employment discussion ended," according to the Voice.


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