Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 68 (9078 total)
92 online now:
Greatest I am, PaulK, vimesey (3 members, 89 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 895,005 Year: 6,117/6,534 Month: 310/650 Week: 80/278 Day: 2/26 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Wasteful Intelligent Design
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 3 of 43 (693662)
03-19-2013 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by GrimSqueaker
03-19-2013 7:00 AM


Even more waste.
I'm not an engineer but that seems ludicrously wasteful

Just to expand on the idea of waste...

If the idea is that humans are special and unique in the universe, then there is even more waste. The universe is so incredibly vast with the observable part from earth being 93 billion light years in diameter, and the habitable part of our solar system is so tiny. What a waste...

I can come up with a few proposals that might offered in response to the objection to waste. Some of the arguments might not be considered acceptable by proponents of intelligent design like those at Discovery institute.

1. Perhaps there is no other way to make a universe other than to make it big and old and to allow life to evolve in it, even if that evolution is going to be directed. I cannot imagine that a proponent of special creation would find this option palatable. Fundies probably would also dislike the idea of limits on God.

2. Perhaps we aren't so special, and the Designer orders and guides life in other systems, and just didn't tell Moses about it. I cannot imagine many fundamentalists liking that.

3. The designer built all of the rest of that stuff to awe us and to provide indication of his power and glory. Maybe that might appeal to some ID proponents.

4. The universe is only 6000 years old, and every technique we currently use to measure ages of rocks, fossils, planets, stars, etc., and all methods of measuing distances to objects in the universe are each horribly and stupendously wrong. Despite the seeming goofiness of this answer it seems to be one that many people would accept.

5. The universe and time were created, with or without divive intervention via the big bang, and life evolved on earth and elsewhere via evolution. No need to explain waste because the waste has no purpose.

6. God works in a mysterious way
His wonders to perform;
He plants His footsteps in the sea
And rides upon the storm.

I'm sure there are other possible explanations.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by GrimSqueaker, posted 03-19-2013 7:00 AM GrimSqueaker has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 17 of 43 (693869)
03-20-2013 1:52 PM


The universe was created to be a storage unit for dark energy. The project was quite successful, but the byproduct of all of that non-metal material (hydrogen and helium) used to build the thing turns out to be a little bit of carbon based side products that don't seem to affect the battery in any significant way.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 19 of 43 (693897)
03-20-2013 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by GrimSqueaker
03-20-2013 3:59 PM


I reckon this argument kinda knocks their whole position flat on it's ass.

It is impossible to make creationism sound so silly that a Creationist will abandon it.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by GrimSqueaker, posted 03-20-2013 3:59 PM GrimSqueaker has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 43 (694015)
03-21-2013 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Bolder-dash
03-21-2013 4:43 AM


Re: The Dr. A theory of denial
You mean you think science is the explanation for why there is science?

Does this really appear to be what anyone has said? Dr. Adequate has suggested that we know that there are laws because science has uncovered them. GrimSqueaker agrees. No one has attempted to say why the laws exist. Then you come up with "science explains why there is science" which addresses some further question that also has yet to come up here.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 4:43 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 1:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 43 (694103)
03-21-2013 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Bolder-dash
03-21-2013 1:35 PM


Re: The Dr. A theory of denial
Percy is wrong, and so are you. There is no way to interpret the following as asking why laws exist:

What's hard to understand is why you think there are laws.

My attempt at wording your question:

"What's hard to understand is your (GrimSqueaker) answer to why laws exist."

But then why is it inevitable that GrimSqueaker even needs an answer to such a question?

And you guys want to find the deeper meaning in life? With these comprehension skills? Good luck.

I'm guessing that most atheists are not looking for the deeper meaning of life. I'm no atheist, but I don't give that question much thought either.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 1:35 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022