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Author Topic:   Wasteful Intelligent Design
GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 1 of 43 (693656)
03-19-2013 7:00 AM


If we accept (I don't bur if we were to) that the universe as it stands and all within it are the process of design, of which the production of higher mammals namely Humans is the intended end result why is it so vast and impossibly wasteful?

The universe is about 14 billion years old, Earth just over 4.5 Billion..... Yet Humans as a clear race have only existed about 200,000 years - I'm not an engineer but that seems ludicrously wasteful

Thoughts?


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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 5 of 43 (693668)
03-19-2013 10:53 AM


Bur is a typo (damn iPhone it's surely the devils tool) I had meant to say "but", as in I am not a creationist BUT if we can accept their premise for a
Moment etc etc

My personal opinion is that the universe is random, without intelligent purpose
And entirely wonderful :-) we are a rather nifty fluke. BUT (and again there is that but) I'd like to hear a creationist explanation for all the waste - preferribly not "god works
In mysterious ( [sic] and breath takingly cruel and wasteful) ways


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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 7 of 43 (693703)
03-19-2013 2:04 PM


Thanks - I have to say I'm really enjoying this forum, feels great to give my brain a bit of a work out

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Intelligent Design and Creationism kinda the exact same thing but with a bit of spin of the media?


  
GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 12 of 43 (693810)
03-20-2013 7:43 AM


I'm loving the replies to this!

I don't really have anything to contribute to my own conversation, but rather enjoying reading it.

(perhaps clarify "waste" in this case meaning unneeded extras)


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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 18 of 43 (693873)
03-20-2013 3:59 PM


I have a horrible feeling my initial point is making me look a bit bad,
I love pointless excess, in fact I revel in it - what with there being no after life and all that I strive to carve a little nichenof heaven out of everyday for myself. Further more I am in no way worried about the excess or "waste" in the universe, watching programs about stars exploding and what not on Discovery is a most relaxing way to spend and evening.

I'm loving the thoughtful and funny comments on this topic, but I'm still dying to hear an oppsition to it by a creationist or ID person, I reckon this argument kinda knocks their whole position flat on it's ass. I could simplify the whole agreement down to "why the hell does Cruithne exist?"

(The obvious answer is that it's an essential part in The Fly Spagetti Monsters wrist watch)


Reason > Belief

Even if we dont agree find me on Facebook, always happy to have new friends


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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


(1)
Message 21 of 43 (693911)
03-20-2013 8:42 PM


Chaos is a awesome and fabulous thing - I freaking love chaos, why is that not good enough?

I see nothing can't be explained by laws and chance and if there was a designer he left
No signature or trade mark - maybe he isn't very proud.

And actually scale wasn't my problem, unneeded excess is -
If humans on earth r the end goal all we need is a moon, a star and somewhere to live, if it's created by magic and not laws then why have anything else?
Of course if laws r involved instead why would we need a creator


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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 24 of 43 (693957)
03-21-2013 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
03-20-2013 10:52 PM


Boom Good Sir, I believe you got "Boom" there!

(it's a good thing, means you rock)


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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 27 of 43 (693962)
03-21-2013 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Bolder-dash
03-21-2013 4:43 AM


Re: The Dr. A theory of denial
Science is the route to which we can best understand everything, belief is a
Dead end "it is because it is - end"

reason logical and scientific exploration is the only reliable path to discovering more about our world.

In the battle of Science VS Belief science has won in every arena;
Germ Theroy VS Demonology
Cosmology VS Flat Earth and orbiting sun
Lightening VS The Anger of Gods
Shall I go on?


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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 34 of 43 (694066)
03-21-2013 3:15 PM


I can't remember what the name for the philosophical principle is but there is a position that simply states,

"since we can ask the question "why do we exist" we can assume that there are the correct properties in place to allow us to exist"

If someone can tell me what that's called and fix my wording that'd be super, but the same can be said of the laws of physics

"why are there scientific laws? Because if there weren't you wouldn't be able to ask the question"

(I'm really butchering this sentiment so I am sorry for that)


Replies to this message:
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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 36 of 43 (694078)
03-21-2013 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Taq
03-21-2013 3:27 PM


Thank u sir that is exactly what I was grasping at

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GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2925 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 40 of 43 (694351)
03-24-2013 7:04 AM


The laws and general goldielocks nature of our reality is because the only observable realities are the ones which fit within the general scientific goldielocksnessness (oh yeah that's a word)

Life, the universe and everything in it is violent, chaotic and utterly beautiful - to reduce it all to the whim of some alien enity is illogical and kinda depressing - truly the only answer is 42


  
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