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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2176 of 5179 (694030)
03-21-2013 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-21-2013 12:40 PM


Re: common sense...
And what is the point you are trying to make with this statistic? I have to agree with Straggler on the fact that there are far more variables than you are taking into account when claiming this is all due to single mothers.
?
You must mean that youagree with me, now that strangler retracts the argument that guns kill people, since guns have dramatically increased while for centuries, killings have gone straight down.
Now Strangler is ALSO saying, "maybe there is more to this than guns", and that "there are far more variables to be taking into account."
I am saying that you and Strangler need take into acount that 70% of all killers were raised by a Single Mother.
I am posting the Stats which show that when abortions rose and eliminated many many potential Single Mothers, the murder rate feel dramatically.
I am saying you and Strangler do a disservice to America by avoiding the hard issue of changing Welfare so that it encourages fathers to raise kids with their mother.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2013 12:40 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2177 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2013 1:09 PM kofh2u has not replied
 Message 2182 by Straggler, posted 03-22-2013 8:35 AM kofh2u has not replied

Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 2177 of 5179 (694037)
03-21-2013 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2176 by kofh2u
03-21-2013 12:48 PM


Re: common sense...
kofh2u writes:
You must mean that youagree with me, now that strangler retracts the argument that guns kill people, since guns have dramatically increased while for centuries, killings have gone straight down.
I do not agree with you in any English definition of the word "agree".
I agree that the murder rate has gone down since 1200AD, but I do not think that the increase in guns has anything to do with it. I see many more reasons for the decrease, including those that I mentioned:
Civil Rights Movements
A Global Economy
Reduced Racism
Reduced Sexism
Lower Religiousity (Strict adherence religiousity)
Higher moral construct
Learning from previous generation's mistakes
etc....
You claim it is one thing...one thing, and you are wrong on that one thing!
kofh2u writes:
Now Strangler is ALSO saying, "maybe there is more to this than guns", and that "there are far more variables to be taking into account."
And Straggler, not Strangler, is correct. There are a ton of variables that play into the decreasing murder rates that our world has seen, most of all the fact that our morals have evolved to remove a large amount of hatred for others.
kofh2u writes:
I am saying that you and Strangler need take into acount that 70% of all killers were raised by a Single Mother.
And this is a bald-faced lie, so why should I focus on it. This is your own statistic, made up in your head so that you can feel that you are better than individuals who did not have a father around. And, I'm sorry but you are no better than anyone else, just as I am no better than anyone else. That is simply a fact, we are all humans, all prone to mistakes and errors in judgment.
kofh2u writes:
I am posting the Stats which show that when abortions rose and eliminated many many potential Single Mothers, the murder rate feel dramatically.
Then why, in the early 80s, were there so many murders? This was a generation predominately raised in two parent homes and yet the murder rate was astronomical! In science, if something refutes your hypothesis you are supposed to throw it out and look for a new explanation. It is time you threw out this useless piece of garbage argument.
Also, your hatred of people raised in single parent homes is blatant. I have many friends who were raised in single parent homes, and guess what...not one of them is a murderer! Wow!
kofh2u writes:
I am posting the Stats which show that when abortions rose and eliminated many many potential Single Mothers, the murder rate feel dramatically.
And, I am saying that the abortions had nothing to do with the reduction in the homicide rates. The Crack epidemic ended in the early 90s and homicide rates began to reduce afterwards. So again, I think you are not taking into account all of the facts and simply blaming it on a group you hate, single mothers. This is rude to the women out there who are sacrificing everything they can...time, money, nights with friends...everything so that they can give their child some happiness. I state once more, your hatred is shining through.
kofh2u writes:
I am saying you and Strangler do a disservice to America by avoiding the hard issue of changing Welfare so that it encourages fathers to raise kids with their mother.
What is your suggestion to change welfare that will better this situation? You want to remove the safety net that many women need when the man in their life beats them one too many times and they must leave? Or is it removing the safety net when the man decides to go run an errand and never come back? I have seen both of these situations...how is reducing or changing welfare going to prevent these situations from occurring? The father is not getting any of that welfare money. In fact, from my single mother friends that are receiving help, 80-90% of that money is going toward the child. The ones I know choose to go with less for themselves, as long as their child is taken care of.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2176 by kofh2u, posted 03-21-2013 12:48 PM kofh2u has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2178 of 5179 (694056)
03-21-2013 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-21-2013 12:40 PM


Re: common sense...
Stop it!! Stop your racist, inner city fatherless children cause all crime blather.
Not "all."
Fatherless kids raised by Sigel Mithers, whether black or white, commit 70% of all crime whether you like that statistic or not.
The inner cities of America are filled with Black single women raising sons that shoot eachother as is the case, whether you like that or not.
The Black community represents 10% of the population but is responsible for 50% of all murders.
FACTS are not racist.
But Political Correctness like yours is a killer that would hide the trith, ban the guns, and tolerate Welfare the way it now works, destroying the Black Family.
IT IS YOU and those like you who hurt the Black community by pretending the Truth is clear here.
These young people kill, not the illegal guns they manage to get.
NOTE THE MURDERS IN THE INNER CITY ARE 600 COMPARED TO 100 FOR SUBURBAN WHITE COMMUNITIES

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2013 12:40 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2179 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2013 2:25 PM kofh2u has not replied
 Message 2181 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-22-2013 3:45 AM kofh2u has not replied

Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 2179 of 5179 (694057)
03-21-2013 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2178 by kofh2u
03-21-2013 2:19 PM


Re: common sense...
Cite the source or it is all BS.
There is no source listed on either of those graphs.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2178 by kofh2u, posted 03-21-2013 2:19 PM kofh2u has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2180 of 5179 (694085)
03-21-2013 6:08 PM


Todays NPR discussion re opinions on guns.
On the way home this afternoon I listed to an NPR program in which 6 people, 3 gun advocates and three gun control advocates discuss their views on guns. I did not get to hear the entire segment, but what I did hear was pretty illustrative of the difficulty people on opposing sides of the debate in understanding each other. I'll talk about my impressions once I've gotten a chance to hear the whole thing, but I did want to give others a chance to hear the program on air or via the web.
On Gun Ownership And Policy, 'A Country Of Chasms' : NPR
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

Replies to this message:
 Message 2192 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2013 10:26 PM NoNukes has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 2181 of 5179 (694113)
03-22-2013 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2178 by kofh2u
03-21-2013 2:19 PM


Re: common sense...
Fatherless kids raised by Sigel Mithers, whether black or white, commit 70% of all crime whether you like that statistic or not.
Who is Sigel Mithers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2178 by kofh2u, posted 03-21-2013 2:19 PM kofh2u has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 2182 of 5179 (694123)
03-22-2013 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 2176 by kofh2u
03-21-2013 12:48 PM


Re: common sense...
Kof writes:
What part of the murder rate has gone down since 1200AD don't YOU understand???
That the murder rate has gone down since the time of Genghis Khan and medieval witch burning should hardly surprise anyone. That someone feels that this has any relevance to the evidenced link between gun prevalence and homicide rates in modern developed nations is the more surprising aspect here.
Kof writes:
Now Strangler is ALSO saying, "maybe there is more to this than guns", and that "there are far more variables to be taking into account."
You don't have to go back to 1200AD to realise that there are other factors which determine homicide rates. You can simply look around the world as it is now. Poverty, inequality, drugs etc. etc. etc. These are all factors.
But the prevalence of guns in society is a significant contributory factor. And this fact remains no matter how inconveninet that fact may be to your ideological preferences.
So I suggest you forget 1200AD and stop denying evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2176 by kofh2u, posted 03-21-2013 12:48 PM kofh2u has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 2183 of 5179 (694126)
03-22-2013 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 2166 by kofh2u
03-21-2013 8:55 AM


Re: I think I get your point...
You know your charts mean absoultely nothing, since you are not attributiing the source of the data.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2166 by kofh2u, posted 03-21-2013 8:55 AM kofh2u has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2184 by Eli, posted 03-22-2013 6:40 PM ramoss has not replied

Eli
Member (Idle past 3492 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


(2)
Message 2184 of 5179 (694177)
03-22-2013 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2183 by ramoss
03-22-2013 10:11 AM


Re: I think I get your point...
He also has no clue that population density in urban v rural settings, all other factors being equivalent, demands there to be more murders in cities.
This guy couldn't read a thermometer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2183 by ramoss, posted 03-22-2013 10:11 AM ramoss has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 2185 of 5179 (694321)
03-23-2013 9:14 PM


Data
Gun deaths shaped by race in America
Posted by Dan Keating on March 22, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Gun deaths are shaped by race in America. Whites are far more likely to shoot themselves, and African Americans are far more likely to be shot by someone else.
The statistical difference is dramatic, according to a Washington Post analysis of data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A white person is five times as likely to commit suicide with a gun than to be shot with a gun; for each African American who uses a gun to commit suicide, five are killed by other people with guns.
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 2186 of 5179 (694795)
03-28-2013 4:32 PM


Weapon List released...
So, after seeing the list of weapons that Adam Lanza stockpiled according to the police reports, I am even more for effective background checks that must be kept on file and for registration of guns and possibly ammo. Without these statutes there is no way we could have expected this tragedy. However, with background checks of all purchases on file and registration of purchases, law enforcement could have been informed that Adam Lanza had stockpiled:
1 Bushmaster .223 caliber model XM15 rifle with a 30-round magazine
1 Glock 10mm handgun
1 9mm Sig Sauer P226 handgun
1 Saiga 12 shotgun with two magazines containing 70 rounds
6 30-round magazines, three of them emptied
At the home:
Guns:
1 Enfield bolt-action .323 rifle
1 Savage Mark II .22 caliber rifle with magazine, 3 live rounds, 1 spent cartridge
1 black marksman BB gun
Ammunition:
5 Winchester 12-gauge shotgun shells cut open, with buckshot
1 white plastic bag with 30 Winchester 12-gauge shotgun shells
1 can with .22 caliber and .45 caliber bullets
8 boxes of Winchester Windcat .22 caliber bullets, 50 rounds per box
20 "Estate" 12-gauge shotgun shells
4 boxes of SB buckshot 12-gauge, 10 round per box
1 box of Lightfield 12-gauge slugs
1 box of 20 Prvi Partizan 303 British rifle cartridges
1 box of 20 Federal 303 British rifle cartridges
2 boxes of .22 long rifle Blazer rounds, 50 each box
1 box with numerous rounds of Winchester .45 caliber bullets
2 boxes of 50 rounds of PPU .45 caliber automatic
1 box of 20 rounds for Remington .223 caliber
3 boxes of Blazer 40 S&W, 50 rounds each
2 boxes of Winchester 5.56 mm, 20 rounds each
1 box of Magtech 45ACP with 30 rounds
1 empty Box of SSA 5.56 mm
1 box of Fiocchi .45 auto with 48 rounds
80 rounds of CCI .22 long rifle
6 boxes of PMC .223 rem, 20 rounds each
6 Winchester 9 pellet buckshot shells, 12-gauge
2 Remington 12-gauge slugs
3 Winchester .223 rifle rounds
31 .22 caliber rounds
2 boxes of Underwood 10 mm auto, each with 50 rounds
130 rounds of Lawman 9mm Luger
2 spent shell casings for Glock 10mm
1 empty box of Gold Dot 9mm Luger
2 empty boxes of Winchester 9mm Luger
1 box of Underwood 10mm auto with 34 rounds
1 box of 29 miscellaneous 9mm rounds
1 spent .22 shell casing
1 small plastic bag containing numerous .22 caliber bullets
1 tan bag with numerous Blazer .45 caliber bullets
1 box of Blazer .22 long rifle with 50 rounds
1 box PPU 303 British cartridges with 9 rounds
2 Winchester 9mm rounds
2 brass-colored shell casings
1 small caliber bullet (live round) labeled C
Magazines:
1 Promag 20-round 12-gauge drum magazine
1 MD Arms 20-round 12 gauge drum magazine
3 AGP Arms 12-gauge shotgun magazines
1 Surefire GunMag magazine with 8 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge, 9-pellet buckshot
2 AGP Arms 12-gauge shotgun magazines, taped together, each with 10 rounds of Winchester 9-pellet buckshot
2 empty Ram Line magazines for Ruger 10-22
1 AGP Arms Gen 2 12-gauge shotgun magazine with 10 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge, 9-pellet buckshot
1 clear plastic Ramline magazine for an AR 15
1 magazine with 10 rounds of .223 bullets
Knives:
Metal bayonet
1 6-foot-10-inch wood-handled two-sided pole with a blade on one side and a spear on the other
1 Samurai sword with a 28-inch blade and sheath
1 Samurai sword with a 21-inch blade and a sheath
1 Samurai sword with a 13-inch blade and sheath
1 knife with a 12-inch blade and sheath
1 wooden-handle knife with a 7.5-inch blade and sheath
1 wooden-handle knife with a 10-inch blade
1 knife with a 5.5-inch blade and sheath
1 black-handled knife with a 7-inch blade and sheath
1 black rubber-handled knife with 9.5-inch blade and sheath
1 white and brown-handled knife with 5-inch blade and sheath
1 brown wood-handled knife with a 10.25-inch blade
1 Panther brown-handled folding knife with a 3.75 inch blade
1 small blue folding knife
Gear:
1 Volcanic .22 starter pistol wth 5 live rounds and 1 expended round
Leightning L3 ear protection
Peltor ear plugs
Simmons binoculars
Uncle Mike's Sidekick nylon holster
Box for vest accessories
Leather dual magazine holder
Black leather handgun holster
High Sierra fanny pack
Numerous paper targets
1 cardboard targets
1 Bushnell sport view rifle scope
Plastic bag of miscellaneous parts
Safariland holster paperwork
Glock handgun manual
MD-20 20-round shotgun magazine manual
MD Arms V-Plug guide
Bushmaster XM15 and C15 instruction manual
Savage Arms bolt-action rifle manual
Glock paperwork
Miscellaneous:
Adam Lanza's National Rifle Association certificate
Nancy Lanza's NRA certificate
Three photographs with images of what appears to be a deceased human covered with plastic and what appears to be blood
Holiday card with a check from Nancy Lanza to Adam Lanza for purchase of C183 firearm
1 digital print of a child and various firearms
1 military-style uniform
Handwritten notes with addresses of local gun shops
Receipts and emails documenting firearm and ammunition supplies
Blue folder labeled guns with receipts and paperwork
Paperwork titled "Connecticut Gun Exchange Glock 20SF 10mm" dated 12-21-11
Sandy Hook report card for Adam Lanza
New York Times article on a 2008 shooting at Northern Illinois Unversity
Books: Look me in the Eye: My Life with Asperger’s; Born on a Blue Day: Inside the Mind of an Autistic Savant; NRA Guide to Basics of Pistol Shooting; Train Your Brain to Get Happy
1 Seagate Barracuda 500gb hard drive, damaged
1 custom-built desktop computer, no hard drive
1 Microsoft Xbox with partially obliterated serial number
One cotton swab of blood-like substance
1 tan sheet with blood-like substance
1 tan fitted sheet with blood-like substance
1 striped towel with blood-like substance
While, yes much of the end of this list would not have been known about with the addition of kept background checks and registration. The important parts, the weapons and ammo, could have been.
Also, I love how quickly the NRA is trying to distance itself from Adam Lanza and his Mother, claiming today that they have no record of either ever being a member, even though membership certificates were in the house for both family members.
Source
Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : Forgot to include source...

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

Replies to this message:
 Message 2187 by NoNukes, posted 03-29-2013 11:25 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2187 of 5179 (694831)
03-29-2013 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2186 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-28-2013 4:32 PM


Re: Weapon List released...
Also, I love how quickly the NRA is trying to distance itself from Adam Lanza and his Mother, claiming today that they have no record of either ever being a member, even though membership certificates were in the house for both family members.
It's likely that they were not members. Apparently the NRA does not even issue Membership certificates. The NRA does offer certificates of completing NRA programs and training. Adam had a certificate for completing a pistol shooting basics course.
But what's funny to me is the vehemence of the denial. Would the boy scouts react this way if Adam Lanza had been reported to be an Eagle scout:
quote:
In a sharply worded statement, the NRA said, "There is no record of a member relationship between Newtown killer Adam Lanza, nor between Nancy Lanza, A. Lanza or N. Lanza with the National Rifle Association. Reporting to the contrary is reckless, false and defamatory."

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2186 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-28-2013 4:32 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2188 by NoNukes, posted 03-29-2013 11:29 AM NoNukes has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2188 of 5179 (694833)
03-29-2013 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2187 by NoNukes
03-29-2013 11:25 AM


Re: Weapon List released...
While, yes much of the end of this list would not have been known about with the addition of kept background checks and registration. The important parts, the weapons and ammo, could have been.
Quite frankly, the obtainable information would have been utterly unhelpful to the police. They would not have been reasonably expected to take any action on it. Didn't the guns belong to mom?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2187 by NoNukes, posted 03-29-2013 11:25 AM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2190 by xongsmith, posted 03-29-2013 9:35 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 2193 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 04-01-2013 11:09 AM NoNukes has replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 2189 of 5179 (694859)
03-29-2013 9:12 PM


This might more properly belong in the humor thread, but I couldn't stop myself. Sometimes I think we need to lighten up. LOL
Cold Dead Hand with Jim Carrey – Funny Or Die
I like the Lewbowski moment....

- xongsmith, 5.7d

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 2190 of 5179 (694860)
03-29-2013 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2188 by NoNukes
03-29-2013 11:29 AM


Re: Weapon List released...
NoNukes probably is right when he says:
Quite frankly, the obtainable information would have been utterly unhelpful to the police. They would not have been reasonably expected to take any action on it. Didn't the guns belong to mom?
My issue is this - this woman should have been barred from getting weapons from the outset. She was already patently nutzo. If they had done a background check on her, they would have had good reason to deny her buying all that fucking weaponry she accumulated. Then! then they would have looked A LOT CLOSER at her son. He might, in all likelihood, have been properly institutionalized, well before 2012. How would they have had a clue that this lady was up to weirdo behavior? By the rate of gun registration.
Well, if "wishes" and "buts" were "candy" and "nuts...."
BUT WAIT!! THERE'S EVEN MORE!
My OTHER brother has made a good point:
Apparently this kid BOUGHT a bullet-proof vest. Other than the law enforcement agencies, who would think they had a reason to believe that bullets would be flying their way in large quantity? This guy was a MINOR when he bought the vest. HELLO? Shouldn't this ring a bell, raise a flag? Hello? We have a problem here, Houston.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2188 by NoNukes, posted 03-29-2013 11:29 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2191 by NoNukes, posted 03-29-2013 9:49 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

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