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Author Topic:   Random mutations
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 6 of 35 (69260)
11-25-2003 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Loudmouth
11-25-2003 1:22 PM


Loudmouth writes:
quote:
One possible way to falsify this would be to look at different mutants that have arisen in different locals and see if they are exhibiting the same exact mutation and no other mutation. It is possible that only one possible mutation is going to work and is being selected for, but this is highly unlikely.
It has, however, been seen:
Hall BG.
On the specificity of adaptive mutations.
Genetics. 1997 Jan;145(1):39-44.
PMID: 9017388 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
From the abstract:
Here I use the ebg system to provide evidence that when selection is applied to one specific nucleotide site within a gene, mutation occurs at that site but not at an alternative and equally mutable site within the same gene.
It seems that selective pressures can be specific enough to result in only those organisms that acquire specific mutations.
Hall seems to specialize in adaptive mutations. Some more interesting results:
Hall BG.
Adaptive mutagenesis: a process that generates almost exclusively beneficial mutations.
Genetica. 1998;102-103(1-6):109-25. Review.
PMID: 9720275 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Loudmouth, posted 11-25-2003 1:22 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Loudmouth, posted 11-25-2003 6:24 PM Rrhain has not replied
 Message 8 by judge, posted 11-25-2003 11:13 PM Rrhain has replied
 Message 33 by randman, posted 12-23-2005 12:33 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 9 of 35 (69343)
11-26-2003 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by judge
11-25-2003 11:13 PM


judge,
Basically, from what I can glean from the abstract, it's kinda like playing a game of Yacht where the only way to get into the next round is to roll five 6s on the very first roll.
The die roll is completely random, but the selective pressure is so specific that only a certain type is selected for.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by judge, posted 11-25-2003 11:13 PM judge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by judge, posted 11-26-2003 2:29 PM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 12 of 35 (69441)
11-26-2003 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by judge
11-26-2003 2:29 PM


judge writes:
quote:
If there were a realtion between the environment "triggereing" a mutation or even an increased likelihood of a particular mutation it would be difficult to falsify or even find compelling evidence for.
Difficult, yes, but from what I understand of the process, not impossible. One test is to see if there are reversion mutations or to alter an organism and see if it mutates back. There are known to be mutational hot spots.
Also, mutations can only happen with what you have. That is, it may be the pressure is so strong that only those who have a deletion mutation in a certain gene get selected, if you don't have that gene in the first place, that pressure simply may not apply to you. For example, the environment may be such that those who need to eat food for their vitamin C (like, say, humans or guinea pigs or trout) will need to have a certain mutation in order to process the food present in the environment for vitamin C. But if you can synthesize your own vitamin C (like almost all other mammals), you don't really have that pressure being applied to you.
quote:
And so although it may be possible to "find" anomolies the simplest explanation (and the one which appears to be true) is that particular (beneficial)mutations are never "triggered" by environmental influences.
Well, never say "never." Since we can see it happening, there's no reason to deny it. We need to research it to find out more of what's going on.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by judge, posted 11-26-2003 2:29 PM judge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by judge, posted 11-26-2003 5:46 PM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 14 of 35 (69444)
11-26-2003 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by judge
11-26-2003 5:46 PM


Jesus Would Read The Frickin' Manual.
RTFM is a common tech support acronym used to describe calls that would never have occurred if the user had simply perused the documentation that accompanied the software in the first place.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by judge, posted 11-26-2003 5:46 PM judge has not replied

  
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