Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Testing Theories of Origins
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 13 of 143 (694378)
03-24-2013 11:41 AM


It seems to me that this guy is special pleading; we already have a tried a tested scientific method, let him bring whatever fabulous new theory he has and see if it measures up.
If he wants to change the rules before he starts, that's a pretty big clue that he feels that his ideas fail the standard tests.
His other five 'tests' are, by the way, mostly bullshit.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by AdminNosy, posted 03-24-2013 1:06 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 23 by designtheorist, posted 03-24-2013 3:06 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 21 of 143 (694397)
03-24-2013 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by AdminNosy
03-24-2013 10:59 AM


Re: Topic
Then I'll be happy for him to give it his best shot - so long as it conforms to reality and can be tested somehow, either experimentally or mathematically, that'll do for me.
As our man thinks his additional 5 tests are not necessary so let's have at the real thing.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by AdminNosy, posted 03-24-2013 10:59 AM AdminNosy has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 43 of 143 (694432)
03-24-2013 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by designtheorist
03-24-2013 6:00 PM


Re: Please don't just ahead
designtheorist1 writes:
1.Are there any other major tests you think are as valuable as explanatory power and predictive success?
Yes, probably. And also; it depends.
Specifically, do you buy any of the five tests Ross mentions (four of which have been used against young-earth creationism)?
No. They're all completely irrelevant.
Is there some other confirmatory test you think adds value that Ross did not mention?
Yes, probably. And also; it depends.
Now, can we cut the bullshit and get on with the actual ideas and evidence for them? If there's anything in them, it will be obvious and won't require special pleading or special tests.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by designtheorist, posted 03-24-2013 6:00 PM designtheorist has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 131 of 143 (694695)
03-27-2013 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Percy
03-27-2013 10:57 AM


Re: Same stuff different day
Percy writes:
and so find it incongruous that someone so apparently even-keeled and clearheaded can't see that things that are true don't require all the fancy footwork.
I've been discussing this sort of stuff with various people for years - though nowhere near as intensely as you must have been - and the thing that returns over and over again, is how a firm belief overrides intellect.
It's the biggest puzzle in all of this - I don't regard Faith, Phat, mindspawn et al as at all stupid, they have intelligence and reasoning ability - and, for God's sake imagination.
But it's all directed at avoiding reality. Belief pollutes reason, even in otherwise reasonable people and I really don't get it.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Percy, posted 03-27-2013 10:57 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2013 12:06 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 134 by Blue Jay, posted 03-27-2013 2:46 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 135 of 143 (694738)
03-27-2013 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Blue Jay
03-27-2013 2:46 PM


Re: Same stuff different day
Blue Jay writes:
In retrospect, it was just cognitive dissonance. And some people, like myself, are just not very good at recognizing it: so, we plow on, completely oblivious to the fact that we're wrong.
Thanks for that.
I do 'get it' intellectually - I understand cognitive dissonance and suffer from it like everyone else. A while back here I had a discussion about Occam's Razor - with Dr A I think - where it took me a while to accept the argument.
But we have both eventually accepted reason in the end. There's nothing wrong with pushing hard against something you hold to be true being challenged, it's the absolute refusal to accept anything at all against it that is hard to understand.
The thing I don't get is the degree of logic and reason failure involved in, for example, Faith YEC beliefs. She has to fight pretty much all of modern science and invent her own inorder to maintain a totally bonkers belief.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Blue Jay, posted 03-27-2013 2:46 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024