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Author Topic:   Theistic Evolution
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1 of 78 (2485)
01-19-2002 3:12 PM


I found this link at Yahoo Clubs: Darwin and Jesus Can Get Along:
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/
Within that site is the authors "Essay in Favor of Theistic Evolution"
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/theisticevolution.html
Is much more also - Looks to be a real nice site.
Moose
------------------
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by TrueCreation, posted 01-19-2002 3:41 PM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 8 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-20-2002 11:30 PM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 20 by Andya Primanda, posted 08-19-2002 6:27 AM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 71 by almeyda, posted 08-06-2004 5:41 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 3 of 78 (2496)
01-19-2002 5:36 PM


I like this site, however, I will raise one point of contention.
Quotes from http://www.theistic-evolution.com/theisticevolution.html
From "The Possibilities of Genesis" section:
quote:
This possibility is often called the "Day-Age Theory." A common criticism of the day-age theory is that the order of days/ages does not match up with evolutionary theory. The answer to this criticism is that if Genesis 2:18-20 is apparently free to change the order of creation for animals and man from Genesis 1:24-27, why should we conclude that the order of creation days is strictly sequential and non-overlapping? If I were permitted to change the Bible (and I'm not), the only switch I would make would be to swap days 3 and 4. The Biblical order matches up well enough for me.
From "Young-Earth Creationists" section:
quote:
Many creationists portray their positions as a choice between believing the Word of God, and believing the theories of fallible humans who are interpreting what they observe about the earth. They are leaving out the fact that it is also fallible humans who are interpreting God's Word in the Bible. There are two layers of interpretation here (of the Bible and of the earth), not just one.
The Bible -> theological interpretation scientific interpretation <- wrongly.
I repeat:
quote:
They are leaving out the fact that it is also fallible humans who are interpreting God's Word in the Bible.
and:
quote:
The Bible cannot be wrong, but it can be interpreted wrongly.
The author is not conceding that it is also "fallible humans" that produced the physical Bible. How can one be certain that the Bible "cannot be wrong", when "fallible humans" have been involved in it's production?
Moose.
------------------
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by TrueCreation, posted 01-19-2002 6:08 PM Minnemooseus has replied
 Message 27 by doctrbill, posted 07-19-2003 10:46 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 5 of 78 (2505)
01-19-2002 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by TrueCreation
01-19-2002 6:08 PM


quote:
True Creation: For one, he dosn't get along with the bible very well it seems, infact doesn't propose too much knowledge on the known theories on the Global Flood, or much of creation science for that matter doing a very bad job of discrediting it.
TC, this doesn't seem to be at all up to your normal level of eloquence.
Is he, perhaps, recognizing the difference of, and separation between science and religion?
------------------
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by TrueCreation, posted 01-19-2002 6:08 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-19-2002 8:21 PM Minnemooseus has not replied
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 6 of 78 (2506)
01-19-2002 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Minnemooseus
01-19-2002 7:11 PM


Part of True Creations response to http://www.theistic-evolution.com/theisticevolution.html :
quote:
True Creation: ...infact doesn't propose too much knowledge on the known theories on the Global Flood
What amounts to being a response from the above cited:
quote:
The Flood is a miracle, either global or local. Why is there a need to invent pseudo-science to "explain" it? We don't need 70-mile high geysers, volcanoes, massive earthquakes, and entire continents appearing and disappearing in a matter of days. These catastrophes are not reported in the Biblical account of the flood, and we don't need to add them.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 8 of 78 (2561)
01-20-2002 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
01-19-2002 3:12 PM


quote:
Originally posted by minnemooseus:
I found this link at Yahoo Clubs: Darwin and Jesus Can Get Along:
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/
Within that site is the authors "Essay in Favor of Theistic Evolution"
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/theisticevolution.html
Is much more also - Looks to be a real nice site.
Moose

There's also a real nice bunch of links there:
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/references.html
Da Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-19-2002 3:12 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by TrueCreation, posted 01-21-2002 12:32 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 13 of 78 (2599)
01-21-2002 11:45 AM


The evolution/creation debate has long been polarized as evolution versus fundimentalist creationist anti-evolutionism.
It is often aserted by the evolution side, that many view evolution and Christian religion (and creationism?) to be something that can co-exist.
This thread attempts to explore such middle ground. Of course, this still runs against the beliefs of the fundimentalists.
I would be interested to hear from the Christian evolutionist side, as to what they find to be a suitable "flavor" of creationism.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by TrueCreation, posted 01-21-2002 12:33 PM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 16 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-22-2002 9:25 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 16 of 78 (2675)
01-22-2002 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Minnemooseus
01-21-2002 11:45 AM


quote:
Originally posted by minnemooseus:
The evolution/creation debate has long been polarized as evolution versus fundimentalist creationist anti-evolutionism.
It is often aserted by the evolution side, that many view evolution and Christian religion (and creationism?) to be something that can co-exist.
This thread attempts to explore such middle ground. Of course, this still runs against the beliefs of the fundimentalists.
I would be interested to hear from the Christian evolutionist side, as to what they find to be a suitable "flavor" of creationism.
Moose

I guess my intent really is to address this topic to the people of the evolution side. The fundimentalist creationist side is naturally opposed to theistic evolution as it includes a substantial acceptance of evolution.
So, evolution side, what do you think of theistic evolution?
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 01-22-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-21-2002 11:45 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 38 of 78 (59044)
10-02-2003 2:57 AM


Bump
Because of happenings in another topic, I sense it's time for a bump for this topic.
Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 69 of 78 (69721)
11-28-2003 3:30 PM


Theistic AND atheistic evolutionist
It has occured to me, that an individual might be BOTH a theistic and atheistic evolutionist, at the same time.
Ken Miller, author of "Finding Darwin's God", might fall into this area.
Might one consider ones self as a "Theistic Evolutionist", in that your faith is that God is indeed behind it all?
At the same time, might one consider ones self an "Atheistic Evolutionist", in that 1) Evolutionary considerations are irrelevant to your Christian faith, and 2) Your Christian faith is irrelevant to your considerations of evolution?
Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 70 of 78 (74515)
12-21-2003 3:08 AM


The theme of "theistic evolutionist" has been coming up in other topics, including "What is a Creationist". I thought about starting a "What is a Theistic Evolutionist?" topic, but thought it be better that I give this one a bump.
I'm sure there's a nice, precise definition of "Theistic Evolutionist" somewhere.
1) What I suspect it is, is an evolutionist who believes God had a (substantial?) hand in guiding the paths that evolution has taken.
2) Another definition might be - An evolutionist who believes that God was ultimately behind it all, but did not actively guide the evolutionary pathways.
Or somewhere in between these two.
MrHambre points out that Kenneth Miller (of "Finding Darwin's God) does not consider himself to be a theistic evolutionist.
quote:
That's where Miller and I part ways. I admire the way he takes great pains to distance himself from 'theistic evolutionists,' since he won't ascribe intention to the admittedly hit-or-miss history of life on earth. I also respect his forthright denial that he could believe in a God who destroyed 99% of all the species He supposedly created, which is far superior to the cynical He-must-have-had-His-reasons attitude typical of creationists.
Earlier in that topic, I mistakingly called Miller an "old Earth creationist". I had meant that as in "Ultimately God is behind it all". I had modified my view to the also apparently wrong "Miller is a theistic evolutionist".
Moose
ps: TrueCreation, currently inactive in this forum, has changed his position considerably from that of early in this topic string.
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 12-21-2003]

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 73 of 78 (815533)
07-21-2017 3:06 AM


Bump - Seems to me we need an active "Theistic Evolution" topic
This OLD topic seems to have died with some good content at the end.
Moose

  
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