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Author Topic:   Did Dinosaurs live with man?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 151 of 373 (696051)
04-11-2013 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-11-2013 9:02 AM


Still no bones
Coy Boy, face it: the open creationists' case is stronger than what you crypto-creo lot suggest on the issue. Look only at the Chinese calendar, boy. They don't have years of hobbit and leprechaun, do they? Them all are familiar beasts there. Sagan's rationalization sounds weak and contrived. Face it, you lot might be backing the losing horse here.
Still no bones, eh?
And I see you're trying to be a wit. Keep posting gibberish, you're halfway there!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-11-2013 9:02 AM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 157 of 373 (696099)
04-11-2013 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-11-2013 9:31 PM


The cat...
The cat is not saying...
"The cat" is not saying anything either literate or of any use in discussing the topic, which is "Did Dinosaurs live with man?"
You claimed that there were dragons cavorting all over the place, playing around with people, but when challenged "Where are the bones?" you started talking about the big bang and other off-topic subjects.
You have steadfastly avoided answering the question, so I'll help you see it more clearly:
WHERE ARE THE BONES?
So far you have shown you have nothing but apologetics, rhetoric, and obfuscation.
Try coming up with some evidence for a change, like where are all of the dragon bones.
Continuing to ignore this question, and responding with grade 3 gibberish, you're just making a fool of yourself.
(Actually all the rest of us know there really aren't, and never has been, any dragons, hence there are no dragon bones, but you don't seem to have realized that yet.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-11-2013 9:31 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-12-2013 12:09 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 160 of 373 (696125)
04-12-2013 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-12-2013 12:09 AM


Re: The cat...
It might be that there are plenty of bones but your classification of them is skewed...
Any evidence of that? Can you point to particular bones and show where the classifications are incorrect? Or that some of those bones might belong to as specialized a creature as a dragon?
Remember, for a large critter to fly requires very distinct bone structure and morphology. Look at chicken bones the next time you dine. Pay particular attention to the keeled sternum (breastbone).
...and your entire chronology is but a fond assumption...
We are talking about bones, not fossils. Chronology doesn't apply. Either you have bones or you do not. So far, you do not.
...or there might even be extant specimens of dragons somewhere.
Dragon of the gaps? You are getting sillier and sillier!
I don't know.
Finally! Something we can all agree on!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-12-2013 12:09 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-12-2013 6:35 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 166 of 373 (696176)
04-12-2013 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-12-2013 8:03 PM


Re: The cat...
In the first paragraph of that useless article you cited we find the claim:
This recalled the radiocarbon (RC) dating by Dr. Walter Libby's team of collagen from "dense mid-shaft femur bones" of twelve extinct saber tooth tigers, [Smilodon] from the LeBrea Tar Pits of Los Angeles CA.2 The RC ages for extracted bone collagen for Smilodon femurs ranged from 12,650 160 to 28,000 1400 RC years BP (Before the Present). According to Dr. Libby, the inventor of the radiocarbon dating method, "There is no known natural mechanism by which collagen may be altered to yield a false age."
This is a standard creationist claim resulting from sloppy research.
This claim usually takes the form:
Bones of a sabre-toothed tiger from the LaBrea Tar Pits (near Los Angeles), supposedly 100,000 to 1000,000 years old, gave a date of 28,000 years. (Radiocarbon, vol. 10, 1968)
The citation above is more screwed up than is normal even for creationists! The Smilodon bones were not dated by Willard (not Walter) Libby at Chicago, but rather by Rainer Berger (at UCLA), with Libby as a co-author on the paper. The radiocarbon dates all bear the UCLA prefix! This would have been a clue if the creationists had even read the Radiocarbon article they cited. But they didn't bother to read it! They just copied (incorrectly) some nonsense from another creationist website.
An analysis of the dating errors appears here:
A Look at Creation Science Part III
In brief, creationists got it somehow into their silly heads that the dates for should be "100,000 to 1000,000 years old" so when the UCLA laboratory dated them at 12,650-28,000 years they said, "Aha! We've got them this time!" And they've been crowing about it ever since. Unfortunately, they have been wrong from the start.
Research of this quality, which is typical, has undermined everything the creationists claim about radiocarbon dating.
(I can provide more examples if you want. Be warned: you won't like them!)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-12-2013 8:03 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 176 of 373 (696313)
04-14-2013 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-14-2013 12:54 AM


Re: The cat...
So, still dancing around the bush and the issue...
You accuse us of this after the useless drivel you inflict upon us?
What a joke!
You've been "dancing around the bush and issue" ever since you were challenged to provide evidence of dragons. All you needed to do was provide evidence, but you don't have any.
The evidence is against you -- the earth is old, and dinosaurs did not live with man. They missed by some 65 million years.
And dragons never existed.
You have any evidence to the contrary, now's the time to present it and forget the useless drivel you usually post.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-14-2013 12:54 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-15-2013 2:12 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 179 of 373 (696371)
04-15-2013 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-15-2013 2:12 PM


Re: The cat...
How sure are you about any single one among the string of bald assertions you just shot at the feline, Coy Boy? Dragons and simians missed each other by 65 million years, you say?
I follow the evidence, and that's what the evidence says. You, on the other hand, are apparently following old myths that have long since been shown to be inaccurate.
You missed by a long mile what Ecclesiastes, Pliny and the feline tell you.
Don't much care what any of those say. I'll follow the evidence instead.
Do you understand what 65 million years means? It's a very long distance. The only steady reference is the distance travelled by the light signal as compared to the length of your baboonish arm. A lot can happen along that way. Far too far for your grabbing action, in any case.
Gibberish not worthy of a response.
Now simians eat rice so did dragons as the Indian fellow who studied the composition of their shit reports. How do you explain that, Coy Boy?
Any references to all of that? Or is that just something you made up or misinterpreted, same as usual?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-15-2013 2:12 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-15-2013 3:04 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 181 of 373 (696374)
04-15-2013 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-15-2013 3:04 PM


Re: The cat...
I googled "Vandana Prasad and dragon coprolites" and found links to Free Republic and articles by Brian Thomas of the Dishonesty Institute. I would not consider either a source for reliable science.
The articles by Vandana Prasad deal with dinosaur diet and make no mention of dragons.
Do you have specific links to some reliable articles or are you engaging in wishful thinking and creation "science" once again?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-15-2013 3:04 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-15-2013 8:06 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 190 of 373 (696417)
04-16-2013 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-15-2013 8:06 PM


Re: The cat...
Brian Thomas' beliefs and affiliations are as irrelevant as yours, Coy. Dishonesty? Irrelevant again.
Brian Thomas has a well-earned reputation for posting creation "science" in the guise of real science. He doesn't let evidence interfere with his religious beliefs. This is typical for the Dishonesty Institute. They are well-known for pushing creation "science" and ID in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. They are nothing more than a propaganda mill.
They can run a polygraph test on you and Brian to check how sincere your respective beliefs on possible co-existence of simians and dragons or dinosaurs are. That would not help to solve the problem as neither of you may have those beliefs from any first-hand experience.
Drivel.
Otherwise, Vandana Prasad is not from Brian's sect at all. The paper just points to the presence of rice or similar grass in dragon's diet.
The papers I saw from Prasad did not mention dragons at all. They dealt with dinosaurs. Looks like you are out there on a limb all by yourself, as the papers you cite as support do not actually support your position.
It might undermine a little your certainty about the geological column and the entire chronology but that is all there is to it in the paper.
I don't see any of that in the papers I read. Perhaps you can post a link to the exact paper you are referring to? Otherwise, what I read from your cited author does not say what you claim it said. Specifically, he never mentioned dragons in the articles I read.
You are just making up things, as usual?
Vandana does not offer any wide-reaching interpretations. Nothing like Michael Cremo does who is another recommended reading for you though coming from a different perspective and so on.
I don't think I will learn much from Michael Cremo.
Do you have any real science to cite?
I'll leave to you the magic, superstition, wishful thinking, old wives tales, folklore, what the stars foretell and what the neighbors think, omens, public opinion, astromancy, spells, Ouija boards, anecdotes, Da Vinci codes, tarot cards, sorcery, seances, sore bunions, black cats, divine revelation, table tipping, witch doctors, crystals and crystal balls, numerology, divination, faith healing, miracles, palm reading, the unguessable verdict of history, magic tea leaves, new age mumbo-jumbo, hoodoo, voodoo and all that other weird stuff.
If you have any real science to support your view that dinosaurs = dragons and that one or both co-existed with modern humans, let's see it.
Bones would be nice, but you've had 100+ posts to provide evidence of dragon bones and have yet to come up with any.
I'm beginning to think you're just a troll.
As suggested above, maybe you should go two falls out of three with David Mabus and have the winner get back to us.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-15-2013 8:06 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-16-2013 7:19 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 207 of 373 (696967)
04-19-2013 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-19-2013 5:21 PM


Re: Quoting the Cheshire
You're citing the Acmbaro figures as evidence????!!
You seem eager to cite anything that offers the flimsiest support for your position, while ignoring the massive amount of evidence that disproves your position.
And you claim to be doing science?
What a joke!
But then, that's creation "science" in a nutshell. (Nut shell! I like that!)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-19-2013 5:21 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-19-2013 10:09 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 212 of 373 (696973)
04-19-2013 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-19-2013 10:09 PM


Re: Laughing at the Cheshire
If the figurines are genuine, they alone are enough to put a nuclear winter on your whole dogma, Coy Boy.
They aren't genuine, so don't overly concern yourself.
Yet they are but a single such funny bit of information out of very many.
They are typical of the arguments made by creationists, and yourself.
You are grasping at any hint of support for your claims, while disregarding the massive amounts of evidence that disprove your claims.
That's not science.
Well, maybe creation "science."
More like religious apologetics: "We'll believe anything that supports our position and deny anything that doesn't."
Get a grip!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-19-2013 10:09 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-20-2013 12:47 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 217 of 373 (697141)
04-22-2013 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-22-2013 12:49 AM


Re: Laughing back at the Coy Boy.
Are you drunk or doped up or what?
Not a word of the nonsense you just posted refutes any piece of evidence that science has produced, and that people have posted for you in this thread.
If all you have is confused nonsensical claims, nobody is going to take you seriously. But that seems to be all you have, and in fact people don't take you seriously.
If you want to advocate your position, why don't you try evidence instead of nonsense?
(Oh, right. You don't have any.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-22-2013 12:49 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-22-2013 2:30 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 222 of 373 (697267)
04-22-2013 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Granny Magda
04-22-2013 12:32 PM


Where are your dragons?
Where are your dragons?
Here's one now!
Catch it quick before it gets away!
Like all the other ones have, eh?
(Dragons existing with man? What a joke!)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Granny Magda, posted 04-22-2013 12:32 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-23-2013 2:49 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 227 of 373 (697321)
04-23-2013 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-23-2013 2:24 PM


Evidence
The cat neither believes nor disbelieves in dragons.
The title of the thread is " Did Dinosaurs live with man?"
Belief has nothing to do with it. What does the evidence say?
The issue discussed here is whether the dragons and dinosaurs are the same phenomenon and the issue is how, when and if they all became extinct and it is clearly far from being any settled science.
The evidence shows: 1) There is no such thing as a dragon. 2) Dinosaurs became extinct some 65 million years ago. 3) The reason(s) for the extinction are still being explored, although there are some strong hypotheses. 4) There is no evidence of true dinosaurs in the recent past (birds etc. don't count).
Understand?
Yes, we understand, but it is clear you have been taken in by some religious claptrap that causes you to ignore the massive amount of evidence that shows that you are wrong.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-23-2013 2:24 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-23-2013 4:06 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 231 of 373 (697330)
04-23-2013 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-23-2013 4:06 PM


"What ifs" again
From the evidence I gathered it rather follows that you lot got very little clue on anything, dinosaurs and dragons might well be the same phenomenon, the simians might well be much older than you assume with a totally different history than you presume in your baboonish arrogance while some dinosaurs likely to have been around not so long ago.
Your "what ifs" are not evidence! All the "what ifs" you can make up don't negate a single piece of scientific evidence. In these three cases the evidence shows you and your "what ifs" are wrong.
To disprove scientific evidence or theory takes real evidence. It can be done, but apparently not by you, as all you can come up with are "what ifs."
But then I guess if you had evidence you would have presented it by now, eh?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-23-2013 4:06 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-23-2013 6:27 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 233 of 373 (697332)
04-23-2013 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-23-2013 6:27 PM


Re: "What ifs" again
You lot just follow the most boring party line imaginable regardless of anything.
You have it backwards, as usual.
We follow the evidence because it is evidence, while creationists such as yourself seem to ignore the evidence no matter how compelling.
The rest of your post is the usual gibberish mixed with personal attacks. You must feel somehow that gibberish and personal attacks make your claims more believable to the other posters and lurkers here.
Have you ever considered that they just make you seem foolish, and cast considerable doubt on everything you say?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-23-2013 6:27 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-23-2013 8:00 PM Coyote has replied

  
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