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Author Topic:   My Beliefs- GDR
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 211 of 1324 (700413)
06-02-2013 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
06-02-2013 7:03 PM


Re: The Gospel Message
Faith writes:
This is instruction to those who are disciples of Christ, saved, born again, not to the entire world.
This kind of thinking just astounds me. You claim to take the Bible as inerrant and essentially dictated by God yet you reject everything that doesn't disagree with your pre-determined beliefs.
Firstly this was from a sermon made when people had no conception of being saved in the sense that you are talking about, and that includes His disciples. Secondly, have you ever even read the good Samaritan. They believed in nothing but death after death. Read Paul in Romans 2 or 1st Corinthians without blinkers.
Faith writes:
Gandhi is a good example of someone who liked Jesus' teachings but missed the whole point about salvation, wasn't saved, wasn't born again. The "liberal" churches also love Jesus' teachings while failing to be Christians.
this is from 1st Corinthians 4:
quote:
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
I'm sure you will say that this only applies to the select group of Christians that agree with you but that isn't Paul is talking to anyone who will listen.
With your focus on the self and individual salvation you want to have definitive knowledge of who is "saved" and who isn't, and it all boils down to "having faith in Christ's death to pay for your sins". Frankly, you have turned a "Great God" into a small and petty god. It is again all about what you believe which runs counter to the whole NT.
Faith writes:
The idea of not having one's theology right is YOUR refrain, I have never said that. Salvation is not a matter of believing a particular theology, it is a matter of faith in Christ's death to pay for your sins. Put that way, Gandhi does not have salvation.
Salvation as a matter of having faith in Christ's death to pay for your sins is a specific theology. Read again about the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. Jesus doesn't talk about doctrine but about people have loving hearts that serve Him by feeding the hungry, visiting prisoners etc. Jesus asks that we have the hearts of loving servants. It is all in the Bible.
GDR writes:
Presumably he Gandhi) is also damned to hell for the same reason.
Faith writes:
I'm afraid so.
There you go disbelieving what Paul says in the Bible again. Thankfully we have a God that is just and that contention is neither Biblical nor Christian.
Faith writes:
Since you do not quote any such "hateful anti-Islamic" things I am not in a position to have an opinion. BUT if what you mean by that phrase pointing out that Islam is a demonic religion or something like that, they are right. Nothing hateful about telling the truth. Depends on the context. Might not be the thing to say to your new Muslim friend, of course, but that doesn't make it any the less the truth.
No wonder we have wars. As I have said before your beliefs run completely counter to everything Christ actually espoused. NO wonder we have problems.
Faith writes:
When you quote that, by the way, are you thinking of the substance of the Law and the Prophets or just imposing your own notion of "love" on it? The Law's commandments, if obeyed, do embody love. If you obey them you are loving God and loving neighbor. If disobeyed they describe the offenses that condemn people. The Ten Commandments are love if obeyed as well (not stealing from others is loving them, not coveting their possessions is loving them etc), but if disobeyed they identify the main categories of sin that lead to Hell. And the Prophets' main work seems to have been warning of God's judgment to come for failure to obey the commandments. Are you thinking of all that when you are appreciating Jesus' summary statement that it is all condensed into Love?
Read the Bible. Read the parables such as the sheep and the goats, the good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son etc they all tell us how we are to love. Your brand of Christianity is exactly like what Jesus spoke out against with the Pharisees.
Faith writes:
Well, the Reformers traced THEIR doctrine to the original writings of course, back through all the true believers. Your view is nothing but modernism/liberalism which took off in the last century with some roots in the previous century.
Much of what the Reformers taught was as a result of the backlash against the abuses of the Roman Catholic church at that time. People died to get the Bible into the hands of the common folk and so quite rightly Bibles became very precious to them.
It didn't make them automatically right. Your beliefs run counter to both Jesus and Paul and that doesn't seem to bother you.
All I can suggest is that you read the Bible in large chunks instead of short sound bites.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 06-02-2013 7:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 06-02-2013 10:23 PM GDR has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 212 of 1324 (700419)
06-02-2013 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by GDR
06-02-2013 8:26 PM


Re: The Gospel Message
I don't have time right now to answer your post but I want to say this much:
What CONCEPTION they had of being saved at that point is irrelevant. The point is that Jesus was addressing His DISCIPLES, not the whole world. Only those who have God's supernatural life within them through the Holy Spirit, the new birth etc., can obey His commandments rightly.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
2Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by GDR, posted 06-02-2013 8:26 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by GDR, posted 06-02-2013 11:30 PM Faith has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 213 of 1324 (700423)
06-02-2013 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Faith
06-02-2013 10:23 PM


Re: The Gospel Message
Faith writes:
The point is that Jesus was addressing His DISCIPLES, not the whole world.
That's not correct. He was addressing a large crowd. Here is how Matthew 5 starts.
quote:
1 Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them, saying:
It is pretty clear from this that he was addressing the corwds and not just the disciples that came to him. However, just to confirm that here is how Matthew 7 ends after Jesus finishes the sermon.
quote:
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.
Faith writes:
Only those who have God's supernatural life within them through the Holy Spirit, the new birth etc., can obey His commandments rightly.
I've certainly known a lot of non-Christians who follow His command to love a lot more closely than many Christians I've known including myself. For that matter you might want to review the posts of some Christians on this forum that are anything but loving.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 06-02-2013 10:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 12:06 AM GDR has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 214 of 1324 (700424)
06-03-2013 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by GDR
06-02-2013 11:30 PM


Re: The Gospel Message
I've understood the first part of that passage to be addressed to the disciples and not to the crowd. In any case we all know the "liberals" love the Sermon on the Mount and think they can obey it while ignoring the rest of the testimony of the Bible, without salvation, even with some pretty nasty opinions about the Bible and "fundamentalists," which you share, and all they are doing is deceiving themselves. Jesus said we must be born again. Without that supernatural work all the attempts to obey the commands are just self-righteousness.
Yes of course there are unbelievers who are more loving than some believers. We all come from different backgrounds, we all have different sins to deal with and learn to overcome and I'm far from happy with my own record as I lose my temper easily and really HAVE to learn to rein it in. But sometimes we're merely telling the truth and we're considered hateful and again, you have not bothered to be specific about your accusations.
But the point is that you are judging by the surface and denying the real essence of Christian faith.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by GDR, posted 06-02-2013 11:30 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 12:51 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 216 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 2:17 AM Faith has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 215 of 1324 (700425)
06-03-2013 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Faith
06-03-2013 12:06 AM


Re: The Gospel Message
Faith writes:
In any case we all know the "liberals" love the Sermon on the Mount and think they can obey it while ignoring the rest of the testimony of the Bible
If you just label people as liberals then they are to be discounted. Interestingly enough there is a good chunk of Christendom that thinks I'm a conservative.
Faith writes:
even with some pretty nasty opinions about the Bible and "fundamentalists," which you share
I don't hold nasty opinions about fundamentalists, I just think they are mistaken. The only time I have a problem is when they misuse the Bible to justify bigotry or violence but I have a problem with anyone who holds those views.
Faith writes:
Jesus said we must be born again.
I don't disagree with that but I contend that you have understood it to mean something that Jesus never intended.
Faith writes:
Without that supernatural work all the attempts to obey the commands are just self-righteousness.
You are very quick to ignore Paul's admonition that we aren't to judge others. Who are you to judge whether someone is self-righteous or not.
Faith writes:
Only those who have God's supernatural life within them through the Holy Spirit, the new birth etc., can obey His commandments rightly.
GDR writes:
I've certainly known a lot of non-Christians who follow His command to love a lot more closely than many Christians I've known including myself. For that matter you might want to review the posts of some Christians on this forum that are anything but loving.
Faith writes:
Yes of course there are unbelievers who are more loving than some believers. We all come from different backgrounds, we all have different sins to deal with and learn to overcome and I'm far from happy with my own record as I lose my temper easily and really HAVE to learn to rein it in. But sometimes we're merely telling the truth and we're considered hateful and again, you have not bothered to be specific about your accusations.
Your point was that only adherents of your particular view of Christianity can obey His commands "rightly". I pointed out that many non-Christians follow His commandment to love better than many Christians, and then you say well of course some do. You seem to want it both ways.
Look at what Jesus says in Matthew 9:
quote:
Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
As Paul says in Romans 2:
quote:
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
However I imagine that these verses should be ignored because they are verses that liberals just love, along with the Sermon on the Mount and pretty much the whole NT.
Faith writes:
But the point is that you are judging by the surface and denying the real essence of Christian faith.
I have no idea what you mean by judging by the surface. The real essence of the Christian faith is God's call, through the incarnate Son that we are to love our neighbour as we do ourselves, and that is the actually the mild version. We are really called to emulate Jesus and put our neighbours ahead of ourselves. It's all in the Bible which is you claim is the inerrant word of God, except that only seems to hold for you when it agrees with what you have already decided is the truth.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 12:06 AM Faith has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 216 of 1324 (700429)
06-03-2013 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Faith
06-03-2013 12:06 AM


Re: The Gospel Message
I was thinking later about this statement of yours which left me somewhat astonished.
Faith writes:
In any case we all know the "liberals" love the Sermon on the Mount and think they can obey it while ignoring the rest of the testimony of the Bible
Maybe Christians such as myself love the "Sermon on the Mount" as it is by far the most comprehensive communication that we have from Jesus. Jesus is the incarnate Word of God and here is that Word laid out for us.
I am not ignoring the rest of the testimony of the Bible. I am simply saying that IMHO your view of what God has to tell us through the scriptures is some considerable distance from the views that you hold..
The Word of God expressed by Jesus is a God who loves and cares for all life, a God who is merciful, a God who is forgiving, a God who is perfectly just and yet a God who gives us free will. This is the God who we are supposed to image to the world.
You choose to dismiss the Sermon on the Mount as something that "liberals" love but you are quite prepared to believe that God would command that His followers commit acts of genocide and orders them to communally stone to death people for minor offences. IMHO, that strikes me as a very perverted view of the Christian faith.
The faith is called Christianity because it is supposed to be Christ centred. Christ illuminated the truth that is to be found in the Hebrew Scriptures while at the same time illuminating where the ancients got it all wrong.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 12:06 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 6:15 AM GDR has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 217 of 1324 (700434)
06-03-2013 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by GDR
06-03-2013 2:17 AM


Re: The Gospel Message
Good grief, I do NOT "dismiss" the Sermon on the Mount, GDR, I've said it's for Christ's disciples, not for unsaved people, not for unbelievers; and that without salvation people deceive themselves who think they are practicing Christianity by trying to obey it.
Christianity IS Christ-centered, totally absolutely Christ-centered. He died for us, He's our Lord and Savior, He's far more than an illuminator of truth and error as you see it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 2:17 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 11:47 AM Faith has replied
 Message 220 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-03-2013 12:24 PM Faith has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 218 of 1324 (700461)
06-03-2013 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
06-03-2013 6:15 AM


Re: The Gospel Message
Faith writes:
Christianity IS Christ-centered, totally absolutely Christ-centered. He died for us, He's our Lord and Savior, He's far more than an illuminator of truth and error as you see it.
Well you have just responded to one statement.
Of course He is more than an illuminator of of truth and error but He is at least that and you discount that by insisting that the OT is inerrant. Yes He is Lord and yes He is saviour so then why do you reject what He is saying?
If your brand of Christianity believes that God is capable of genocide and communal stoning then your faith is not Christ centred. Jesus is God's Word incarnate. You acknowledge that Jesus is Lord and Saviour but if you reject what He says and understand God to be capable of commanding genocide and public stoning then you aren't a Christ follower. It would be the equivalent of acknowledging that Obama is President but rejecting his policies.
Acknowledging Obama as president does not make you an Obama follower. Acknowledging Christ as Lord and Saviour does not make you a Christ follower.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 6:15 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 12:43 PM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 219 of 1324 (700462)
06-03-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by GDR
06-02-2013 6:51 PM


GDR writes:
Paul would have had tyo be convinced by eye-witnesses that this really happened to the point that he gave up a life of position in the community to become a travelling evangelist largely dependent on others for food and shelter. He also spent considerable time in prison, suffered abuse and was eventually put to death.
Have you seen (or read) The Last Temptation of Christ? Jesus comes down from the cross and lives a long life, married with children. At one point he meets Paul and is outraged that Paul is preaching his death and resurrection. Paul laughs and says that it doesn't matter a bit whether Jesus rose from the dead. What matters is that the people believe he did.
As for the hardships he suffered, Paul wouldn't be the last televangelist to miscalculate the outcome of his ambition.
GDR writes:
If you had seen someone dead and the then three days later see them walking around in a body that was the same but then not quite the same either you then start interpreting those events, whether you were a Hindu or a Jew.
And if you interpret them honestly, the most likely interpretation would be that he was never really dead. (Jesus "died" suspiciously quickly for a crucifixion.) You yourself would come to that conclusion if you witnessed a purported resurrection.
GDR writes:
They believed certain things about Jesus that caused them to follow Him in ways that went beyond His moral message.
But they didn't, really, did they? Many professing Christians "follow" him less than I do. Their belief has no real significance.
People will do all sorts of things, good and bad, in the name of belief but their behaviour has no bearing on the legitimacy of their beliefs.
GDR writes:
I can't prove that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. It is my belief that he doesn't.
That's my point. You've arbitrarily chosen one flavour over another. There is no inherent difference between the flavours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by GDR, posted 06-02-2013 6:51 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 1:53 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 220 of 1324 (700463)
06-03-2013 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
06-03-2013 6:15 AM


Re: The Gospel Message
Christianity IS Christ-centered, totally absolutely Christ-centered.
Yeah, its too bad some protestants have been tricked by the devil into worshiping the Bible before and in place of Christ, but its obvious how easy of a sell it was to them when they don't have to actually do anything but utter a few words about what they supposedly believe in order to receive their get out of hell free card. The bigger shame is that their house-of-cards faith is so flimsy that they have to deny the most basic and obvious of facts in order to prop up their flimsy inerrant-Bible foundation, otherwise the whole thing comes crashing down exposing the facade-of-a-faith that it really is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 6:15 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 12:40 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 221 of 1324 (700465)
06-03-2013 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by New Cat's Eye
06-03-2013 12:24 PM


Re: The Gospel Message
Huh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-03-2013 12:24 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-03-2013 2:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 222 of 1324 (700466)
06-03-2013 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by GDR
06-03-2013 11:47 AM


Re: The Gospel Message
We've been over this before, GDR. The accusation of "genocide" and unjust stoning is just evil-speaking against God whose actions are always just. You don't like the death penalty for sin apparently, but that's what is being illustrated in the OT, and it's meant to teach us that sin deserves drastic punishment. It's a foreshadowing of Hell.
Or, in other words, it's meant to teach us why we need a Savior, why Jesus came to die in our place so that we don't have to suffer such drastic consequences for our sins.
So you get rid of the reason we need a Savior and then you denigrate the idea of a Savior who died for our sins as well. That gets rid of the entire gospel.
You like Jesus' teachings, just not His main work.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
2Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 11:47 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 223 of 1324 (700475)
06-03-2013 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by ringo
06-03-2013 12:19 PM


ringo writes:
Have you seen (or read) The Last Temptation of Christ? Jesus comes down from the cross and lives a long life, married with children. At one point he meets Paul and is outraged that Paul is preaching his death and resurrection. Paul laughs and says that it doesn't matter a bit whether Jesus rose from the dead. What matters is that the people believe he did.
So your evidence is a fictional story written in the 20th century. What’s your point?
ringo writes:
As for the hardships he suffered, Paul wouldn't be the last televangelist to miscalculate the out come of his ambition.
Well Paul did pre-date television by a few years but aside from that when you read his letters it is obvious that he isn’t ambitious. If he had been ambitious he would stayed as he was.
ringo writes:
And if you interpret them honestly, the most likely interpretation would be that he was never really dead. (Jesus "died" suspiciously quickly for a crucifixion.) You yourself would come to that conclusion if you witnessed a purported resurrection.
Firstly, the Romans were really good at killing people. Secondly Jesus had been brutally beaten and yet 3 days later He is completely rejuvenated. The claim ever was that Jesus had come back in the way that Lazarus did. Jesus came back with a different kind of physicality.
GDR writes:
Sure, but this isn't that kind of following. They believed certain things about Jesus that caused them to follow Him in ways that went beyond His moral message. He had been executed but they followed Him with the claim that He was still alive and ruling.
ringo writes:
But they didn't, really, did they? Many professing Christians "follow" him less than I do. Their belief has no real significance.
People will do all sorts of things, good and bad, in the name of belief but their behaviour has no bearing on the legitimacy of their beliefs.
In a sense there are two facets to Christianity. There is the moral side, but there is also the understanding of how God has reached out to us in the past, in the present and what His ultimate plan is for creation. Yes, you don’t have to be a Christian to be moral, and I have agreed before that many non-Christians are more loving, peaceful, forgiving etc than are many Christians.
However, the Biblical message is that if someone really does accept Christ as Lord that they become a more moral person than they had been previously. It is faith, but I do believe that God does touch our hearts, minds and imaginations with His Spirit and when we give our lives over to that our conscience is somehow made more aware of our failings and is with us in having a will to overcome those failings.
ringo writes:
That's my point. You've arbitrarily chosen one flavour over another. There is no inherent difference between the flavours.
If you want to compare belief in the tooth fairy to Christianity feel free. If there is anybody else reading this thread they can decide for themselves as to which is a more subjectively believable.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by ringo, posted 06-03-2013 12:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by ringo, posted 06-03-2013 2:27 PM GDR has replied
 Message 226 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 3:06 PM GDR has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 1324 (700476)
06-03-2013 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
06-03-2013 12:40 PM


Which part are you having trouble understanding?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 12:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 225 of 1324 (700479)
06-03-2013 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by GDR
06-03-2013 1:53 PM


GDR writes:
So your evidence is a fictional story written in the 20th century. What’s your point?
Who said anything about evidence? It's a response to your claim that Paul "would have" done this or that. It's an alternate scenario of what he "would have" done.
GDR writes:
Well Paul did pre-date television by a few years but aside from that when you read his letters it is obvious that he isn’t ambitious. If he had been ambitious he would stayed as he was.
Most televangelists are "obviously" humble - but they're pretty good actors too. You really should stop pretending to know what Paul "would have" done.
GDR writes:
Firstly, the Romans were really good at killing people. Secondly Jesus had been brutally beaten and yet 3 days later He is completely rejuvenated.
Crucifixion was a deliberately slow form of execution. If Jesus died that quickly, the Romans failed in their purpose.
GDR writes:
The claim ever was that Jesus had come back in the way that Lazarus did. Jesus came back with a different kind of physicality.
Well, woo... woo.
As I said, if you witnessed those events, you wouldn't honestly say that it was a "different kind of physicality". You'd say it was a scam.
(By the way, a "different kind of physicality" doesn't count as a resurrection, as far as I'm concerned.)
GDR writes:
If you want to compare belief in the tooth fairy to Christianity feel free.
Thanks. I will - at least until somebody is able to show a distinction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 1:53 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by 1.61803, posted 06-03-2013 3:24 PM ringo has replied
 Message 228 by GDR, posted 06-03-2013 3:50 PM ringo has replied

  
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