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Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 151 of 313 (700420)
06-02-2013 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by PaulK
06-02-2013 3:05 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
Sorry for my misspelling. 1. The caesars are referred to by John in Revelation in 3 basic groups. 2. John was NOT listing all of the caesars. 3. Group 'a' was a group of caesars who had been in power before the time of John's writing. Of that group (I don't know how many and it doesn't matter), John was only interested in the 5 who had specifically died unnatural deaths. 4. Group 'b' was the caesar who was in power at the time of John's writing- Domitian. 5. Group 'c' was a reference to a future caesar who would be a 7th, and then also be an 8th- yet even as an 8th, he would be of the previous 7 caesars. Period. I can't make any clearer. If you want to keep throwing in irrelevant nonsense about who was a caesar and who wasn't, then waste your hot air uon your mirror, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by PaulK, posted 06-02-2013 3:05 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by PaulK, posted 06-03-2013 1:26 AM PaulGL has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 152 of 313 (700421)
06-02-2013 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by PaulGL
06-02-2013 2:45 PM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
The antichrist will be used by God to utterly destroy catholicism (and all religion) wherever he is in power. He will 'burn her with fire, and kill her children with death'. So please quit wasting time considering the red herring of 'pope is the antichrist.
Yes, that is THE reason to suppose that THE Antichrist, the FINAL Antichrist will not be a Pope but a would-be "Caesar," along the lines of another Hitler. Nevertheless to miss that the papacy is the ongoing Antichrist system (and in fact the inheritor of the legacy of the Caesars, the pagan Pontiff, the man who would be a god) that persecuted the true believers down the centuries is as good as giving the wolf in sheep's clothing carte blanche to continue his plans against the true Church without being detected or confronted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by PaulGL, posted 06-02-2013 2:45 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by PaulGL, posted 06-03-2013 3:01 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 153 of 313 (700426)
06-03-2013 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by PaulGL
06-02-2013 10:28 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
quote:
Sorry for my misspelling. 1. The caesars are referred to by John in Revelation in 3 basic groups. 2. John was NOT listing all of the caesars. 3. Group 'a' was a group of caesars who had been in power before the time of John's writing. Of that group (I don't know how many and it doesn't matter), John was only interested in the 5 who had specifically died unnatural deaths.
I don't know why I have to keep telling you this, but at the time you assign to the writing EIGHT Caesars had died unnatural deaths.
Are you ever going to deal with this fact ?
quote:
s. 4. Group 'b' was the caesar who was in power at the time of John's writing- Domitian. 5. Group 'c' was a reference to a future caesar who would be a 7th, and then also be an 8th- yet even as an 8th, he would be of the previous 7 caesars. Period. I can't make any clearer
Well you could make it clearer by explaining how you created these groups instead of just insisting that we blindly accept your interpretation.
quote:
If you want to keep throwing in irrelevant nonsense about who was a caesar and who wasn't, then waste your hot air uon your mirror, please.
So much for coming here to "test your ideas". f the truth is "irrelevant" to you, why bother ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by PaulGL, posted 06-02-2013 10:28 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by PaulGL, posted 06-03-2013 2:54 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 154 of 313 (700480)
06-03-2013 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by PaulK
06-03-2013 1:26 AM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
Last time :
'a' is past with respect to the time of the writing of John's Revelation.
'b' is at the time of the writing.
'c' refers to something future to the time of the writing.
If this isn't clear, I can't help you.
Regarding how many prior were 'fallen', John lists 5. He was 2,000 years closer to the facts, those facts were of greater relevance to him than to us, and I trust John's account more than your opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by PaulK, posted 06-03-2013 1:26 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by PaulK, posted 06-03-2013 3:03 PM PaulGL has not replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 155 of 313 (700481)
06-03-2013 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
06-02-2013 11:13 PM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
If you do not believe that this verse applies to the Roman Catholic Church, read Foxe's Book of Martyrs. The Roman Catholic Church killed more Christians during the Protestant Reformation than the Roman Empire did during the early days of the church.
Satan expressed his authority through the old Roman Empire, which severely persecuted the early Christians. When the Antichrist comes to power, Satan will give him his full power and authority to express him in persecuting God's people and worshiping Satan through the worship of the Antichrist. In all these years since the end of the Roman Empire, what has served Satan as his expression and provided him with worshipers? None other than the Roman Catholic Church!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 06-02-2013 11:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 06-03-2013 6:16 PM PaulGL has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 156 of 313 (700482)
06-03-2013 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by PaulGL
06-03-2013 2:54 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
quote:
Last time :
'a' is past with respect to the time of the writing of John's Revelation.
'b' is at the time of the writing.
'c' refers to something future to the time of the writing.
If this isn't clear, I can't help you.
Oh it's quite clear. You don't have a clue what you're talking about which is why you go on about vague irrelevancies.
quote:
Regarding how many prior were 'fallen', John lists 5. He was 2,000 years closer to the facts, those facts were of greater relevance to him than to us, and I trust John's account more than your opinion.
By which you REALLY mean that you put your ignorant opinions ahead of the truth.
How long does it take you to just find a list of The Twelve Caesars and find out how many died unnatural deaths ?
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

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 Message 154 by PaulGL, posted 06-03-2013 2:54 PM PaulGL has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by caffeine, posted 06-04-2013 5:00 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 157 of 313 (700503)
06-03-2013 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by PaulGL
06-03-2013 3:01 PM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
If you do not believe that this verse applies to the Roman Catholic Church, read Foxe's Book of Martyrs.
WHAT verse did I deny applies to the RCC? I said nothing of the sort.
The Roman Catholic Church killed more Christians during the Protestant Reformation than the Roman Empire did during the early days of the church.
I think you must mean during the Inquisition, not the Reformation, and I'm well aware of that, have argued along those lines myself many times here. I have NO idea why you are telling me these things.
Satan expressed his authority through the old Roman Empire, which severely persecuted the early Christians. When the Antichrist comes to power, Satan will give him his full power and authority to express him in persecuting God's people and worshiping Satan through the worship of the Antichrist. In all these years since the end of the Roman Empire, what has served Satan as his expression and provided him with worshipers? None other than the Roman Catholic Church!
Funny, you're saying what I've been saying and don't seem to know it. The usual problem is that most of the Church is blind to the fact that the RCC is a CONTINUING persecutor of true believers, continues to plot against Protestantism to this day. Their murders and plots are usually thought wrongly to be a thing of the past.
Again, you are preaching to the choir here and I have no idea why you think you need to do this.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by PaulGL, posted 06-03-2013 3:01 PM PaulGL has not replied

Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 158 of 313 (700530)
06-04-2013 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by PaulK
06-03-2013 3:03 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
Oh it's quite clear. You don't have a clue what you're talking about which is why you go on about vague irrelevancies.
To be fair to the other Paul's prophecy, if Revelation is taken to have been written in the time of Domitian, then there were, indeed, five Caesars who had died by violence.
1) Julius Caesar was assassinated 44 BC.
2) Caligula was assassinated 41 AD.
3) Nero supposedly got his friends to help him commit suicide, so as to avoid assassination, in 68 AD.
4) Galba was assassinated by the Praetorian guard a few months later.
5) Otho stabbed himself in the heart the same year.
You may want to add Vitellius, but if we're being pedantic then, according to Suetonius, Vitellius was never actually called Caesar:
quote:
...he very eagerly accepted the cognomen of Germanicus, offered him by the unanimous consent of both armies, but deferred assuming that of Augustus, and refused for ever that of Caesar.
I'm a bit unsure where you're getting the figure of eight from. Are you counting Claudius as being assassinated?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by PaulK, posted 06-03-2013 3:03 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 159 of 313 (700531)
06-04-2013 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Faith
05-31-2013 7:32 PM


Wasn't this thread about this EU?
Lest it seems that my only contribution to this thread is nitpicking, I have a more substantive question.
The thread is also supposed to focus on the European Union, and many of us believe that is the likely arena through which the power of the final Antichrist to be expressed. There are many interesting symbols connected with the EU that relate it to the Book of Revelation, the Harlot Church that rides the beast for instance.
I've seen similar claims about the symbols connected to the EU throughout this thread but, unless I haven't been paying attention, no one's actually elaborated what they mean. The only offering was the Neighbourhood Policy, which is not a seven-year agreement as claimed; and the fact that only 10 EU powers have vetos, which is untrue.
Different decision-making procedures are used in the European Council for different policy areas. Some things, like foreign policy, require unanimity - meaning everyone has a veto, including Malta. Some policy areas, mostly administrative, require a simple majority of states, meaning no one has a veto. Others require a qualified majority, which means at least 55% of member-states representing at least 65% of the population (with the condition that at least four states are required to vote against something to block it). Again, no one has a veto. The top ten working together could veto anything, but they couldn't pass anything without support. And, for that matter, the three largest plus the smallest are sufficient for a veto.
Any chance you could fill us in on any of these signs of the EU's involvement in the End Days?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 05-31-2013 7:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 06-04-2013 9:03 AM caffeine has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 160 of 313 (700532)
06-04-2013 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by caffeine
06-04-2013 5:00 AM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
I'm getting the numbers from PaulGL who states:
At the time John wrote the book of Revelation, Domitian, the sixth Caesar, was in power. Before the reign of Domitian, there had reigned five Caesars who had died unnatural deaths (are fallen) through murder or suicide. The first four of these (in chronological order) were Julius Caesar, Tiberius Caesar, Caligula, and Claudius Caesar. Physically, the Antichrist will rise to power suddenly as the seventh Caesar over a revived Roman Empire.
Suetonius includes Vitellius as one of the Twelve Caesars so by PaulGL's criteria he should be counted, too.

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 Message 158 by caffeine, posted 06-04-2013 5:00 AM caffeine has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 161 of 313 (700536)
06-04-2013 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by caffeine
06-04-2013 5:11 AM


Symbolism of the European Union
Any chance you could fill us in on any of these signs of the EU's involvement in the End Days?
What I was thinking of is the statue of Europa riding a bull outside the building that houses the EU Parliament in Strasbourg and another in front of another EU building in Brussels. Christians immediately recognize this image as "the woman who rides the beast" in the Book of Revelation, who is generally understood to be the Harlot Church, a false worldwide religious system headed by the Vatican.
I found this blog that includes these statues, plus the fact that the main EU building, designed to imitate the Roman Colosseum, reminds Christians of the Tower of Babel -- quite pointedly if you look at the poster this blogger found.
Some time ago I'd noticed that the flag of the Council of Europe is a circle of twelve stars on a blue background which immediately reminded me of the woman in Revelation with a crown of twelve stars and the moon under her feet, and I discovered that the designer of the flag did in fact have her in mind, as I report at my own blog. This is another Roman Catholic symbol as they conceive it.
The fact that ten countries are at least foundational to the EU also reflects Bible prophecy of a revived Roman Empire in the last days made up of ten nations. I'd found a picture of a commemorative coin I posted that represents the ten nations but the picture is now not showing up at my blog so I may have to track it down again.
It's not particularly relevant to this discussion I suppose but in that post I also got carried away about the EU anthem being Beethoven's Ode to Joy which is a wondrously pagan one-world theme song.
I've also heard that in one of the main council rooms, maybe the parliament, that Chair Number 666 has been pointedly left vacant. That I'd have to look up again, but I'm mostly writing this off the top of my head, maybe I can find more later.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : make links more visible
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
2Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by caffeine, posted 06-04-2013 5:11 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 9:43 AM Faith has replied
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 Message 174 by caffeine, posted 06-04-2013 11:03 AM Faith has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 162 of 313 (700537)
06-04-2013 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Faith
06-04-2013 9:03 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Faith writes:
I found this blog that includes these statues, plus the fact that the main EU building, designed to imitate the Roman Colisseum, reminds Christians of the Tower of Babel -- quite pointedly if you look at the poster this blogger found.
Why does a building that imitates the Roman Colosseum remind you of the Tower of Babel?
Does it look like it?
Could you post a link to a painting/drawing of what the Tower of Babel actually looked like, so that I can compare?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 06-04-2013 9:03 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 06-04-2013 9:50 AM Panda has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 163 of 313 (700538)
06-04-2013 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Panda
06-04-2013 9:43 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
I did post the link to that blog that has pictures of the building, Breughel's painting of the Tower of Babel and an EU poster that refers to the Tower of Babel. Maybe the link doesn't show up clearly enough in my post?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 9:43 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 10:15 AM Faith has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 164 of 313 (700539)
06-04-2013 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
06-04-2013 9:50 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Faith writes:
I did post the link to that blog that has pictures of the building, Breughel's painting of the Tower of Babel and an EU poster that refers to the Tower of Babel. Maybe the link doesn't show up clearly enough in my post?
Well, the poster was a drawing of Bruegel's painting - so I am not surprised it looks like Bruegel's painting.
But Bruegel's painting was made many thousands of years after Babel was destroyed, yes?
So what was the painting based on? Well, Bruegel based it on the Roman Colosseum.
And what was the EU building based on? Answer: the Roman Colosseum.
In summary: Bruegel's painting - which was based on the Roman Colosseum - reminds you of the EU Parliament building - which was based on the Roman Colosseum.
So - back to my unanswered questions:
Why does a building that imitates the Roman Colosseum remind you of the Tower of Babel?
Does it look like it?
Edited by Panda, : Removed already-answered question.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 06-04-2013 9:50 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 06-04-2013 10:20 AM Panda has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 165 of 313 (700540)
06-04-2013 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Panda
06-04-2013 10:15 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
OK it reminds us of a famous painting of the Tower of Babel. The imagery is striking, and the EU poster confirms that they too find it striking and representative of their goals. Sure you can nitpick it to death for whatever thrill that gives you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 10:15 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
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