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Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 169 of 313 (700544)
06-04-2013 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Dr Adequate
06-04-2013 10:30 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Ah a plodding literalist. Well of course those who designed Europa riding the bull most likely didn't have the Book of Revelation in mind, but she does nevertheless conjure that image for some of a more perspicacious turn of mind.
If Breughel found the Colosseum a likely model for the Tower of Babel, and the EU found both the Colosseum and that painting representative of their own goals, the connection does seem rather obvious to some of us of a more perspicacious mentality.
The INTERPRETATION of the woman used by the flag designer is Roman Catholic, that is, Mary, but Protestants interpret her as Israel and the Church.
I said "at least foundational" because ten nations are for some reason made emblematic of the EU in various ways, such as on the commemorative coin I mentioned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-04-2013 10:30 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 10:58 AM Faith has replied
 Message 179 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-04-2013 11:45 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 170 of 313 (700545)
06-04-2013 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by New Cat's Eye
06-04-2013 10:41 AM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
I'm not talking about Catholics, I'm talking about the Vatican and its history, about which Catholics generally know very little, and it is exactly what I've said it is. It is in the interest of Catholics to learn these things too.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 171 of 313 (700547)
06-04-2013 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Panda
06-04-2013 10:34 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Yes you are nitpicking and missing the obvious point which I just mentioned in my post to Dr. A:
If Breughel found the Colosseum a likely model for the Tower of Babel, and the EU found both the Colosseum and that painting representative of their own goals, the connection does seem rather obvious to some of us of a more perspicacious mentality.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 173 of 313 (700549)
06-04-2013 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Panda
06-04-2013 10:58 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
The poster suggests that the EU aims to recover the original Tower of Babel and unify all the tongues and nations of the world, which as the blogger points out, was major rebellion against God. Certainly an end days theme. The whole aim of unifying the world, a global religion and a global government, is fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 175 of 313 (700551)
06-04-2013 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by caffeine
06-04-2013 11:03 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
If I have time I'll come back and answer more carefully but right now I'd like to ask that you please read through some of my answers to others on this subject above as I've dealt with the colosseum-tower of Babel issue and the ten nations issue.
The Book of Revelation isn't the only source of end times images.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 181 of 313 (700578)
06-04-2013 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Dr Adequate
06-04-2013 11:45 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Found the picture of the Armenian coin commemorating their joining the Council of Europe in 2001. Seems logical to me that the ten strokes that fan off the logo probably represent the first ten member states but if you happen to know that they don't, let me know.
The Wikipedia article says the Council of Europe was founded in 1949 with ten original states. It seems to be emblematic of the Council since they make a point of it, even providing a map of the first ten despite the fact that it was only a couple months afterward that the number increased.
Yeah, Europa on a bull doesn't match the particulars in Revelation, we just find it highly suggestive. I also find the legend of Europa highly suggestive -- raped by the bull you know, Zeus in the form of.
Oh I DO think the fact that the EU made Breughel's Tower of Babel a model for their goal of world unification, which Biblically is a model of rebellion against God, and that they modeled some major architecture on the Roman Colosseum which Breughel's painting also mimics, is HIGHLY suggestive of Biblical end times themes.
ABE: Hey Here's a page that gives better pictures than the blogger I linked before. The Parliament Building in Brussels was actually DESIGNED to look like Breughel's Tower of Babel and it's called The Tower Building.
I'd also note that the stars in the poster are rather pointedly shaped like the Baphomet image, the devil's head.
And SURELY the fact that the designer of the flag based it on the Catholic interpretation of the woman with the crown of stars gives it a Roman Catholic meaning as opposed to a Protestant meaning. Hm?
Lots of ROMAN imagery here you know. Prophecy points to a revived Roman Empire as the seat of the final Antichrist.
What do you think of the empty 666 chair?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-04-2013 11:45 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-04-2013 7:49 PM Faith has replied
 Message 187 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 9:21 PM Faith has replied
 Message 197 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-05-2013 12:10 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 06-05-2013 1:23 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 183 of 313 (700580)
06-04-2013 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Dr Adequate
06-04-2013 7:49 PM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Yeah I'm not clear on the relation between the Council of Europe and the EU, perhaps you can enlighten me. Surely we don't have two separate governing bodies? Much of the imagery here seems to be connected to the Council of Europe.
Found a link explaining it but it's not clear why there are these two different entities that seem to have similar functions and goals. Even the same flag.
Oh by the way I added a link at the AbE in the other post.
Na, there's no schizophrenia here, it's just interesting and fun to play with symbolism.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-04-2013 7:49 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Rahvin, posted 06-04-2013 8:18 PM Faith has replied
 Message 196 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-05-2013 11:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 185 of 313 (700582)
06-04-2013 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Rahvin
06-04-2013 8:18 PM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Well, yeah, I take Bible prophecy very seriously, but that doesn't mean I think any particular imagery from the world that looks like an interesting fit is necessarily THE fit. I think the EU or Council of Europe symbolism is very interestingly suggestive, VERY, but until it's played out further there's no way to be completely certain of it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 188 of 313 (700594)
06-04-2013 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Panda
06-04-2013 9:21 PM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Could be, Panda, perhaps you have explained its true significance.
I'd still note that for some reason the article on the Council of Europe seems to make a big deal out of the fact that there were ten original members.
The idea I've heard most often recently, about the Biblical ten nations of the revived Roman Empire, doesn't even focus on Europe but on dividing up the entire world into ten large regions or chunks of geography.
It's all still in flux.

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 Message 187 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 9:21 PM Panda has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 189 of 313 (700595)
06-04-2013 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by jar
06-04-2013 8:51 PM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Oh there is lots of interesting symbolism connected to the UN too.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 190 of 313 (700596)
06-04-2013 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by New Cat's Eye
06-04-2013 11:34 AM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
I've posted a fair amount about the history of the Vatican and the Jesuits already on various threads so probably won't here.
Of course all this is offensive to Catholics but I'd hope to get it across that I'm aware that the vast majority of members of the Catholic Church are good sincere people who would be appalled to know what I'm beginning to know about the history of the RC Church, the papacy and the Jesuits in particular. Besides, nobody seems to mind offending "fundamentalists" here, why be particularly sensitive about Catholics?
It was good sincere Catholic priests who became the Protestant Reformers and left the RCC. It still happens today that priests even after many years recognize that the papacy is seriously wrong and leave the institution.
There are plenty of critics of the papacy and the Jesuits who remain within the RCC too though. Pascal was a good sincere Catholic who lambasted the Jesuits in his Provincial Letters. Erasmus was a good sincere Catholic who agreed with Luther that the people should have the Bible in their own language, which the papacy objected to. These men remained Catholics.
So did contemporary writers such as Malachi Martin, Peter DeRosa and Hans Kung, all severe critics of the papacy and the Jesuits. All remained within the RCC. Lord Acton of a previous generation was another severe critic who remained.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-04-2013 11:34 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-06-2013 5:13 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 192 of 313 (700601)
06-04-2013 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Panda
06-04-2013 10:14 PM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
READ THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ON THE Council of Europe. That's ALL I've been referring to.
And a lot of the symbolism related to the C of E rather than the EU, as I've said already. And they DO work in concert as I also posted a link on. Good grief if you split hairs finely enough you could prove anything you want to prove. Try taking it all in the spirit intended.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 10:14 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 11:15 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 194 of 313 (700613)
06-05-2013 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Panda
06-04-2013 11:15 PM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
What you call "correcting" me is really just preferring your own opinion to mine.
I still read that article on the Council of Europe as making more of the original ten nations as something definitive than you do.
I've said I'm not clear on the differences between the Council of Europe and the European Union but my interest is in how a united Europe reflects Biblical prophetic symbolism and either will do for that purpose as far as I can tell. There seems to be plenty of such symbolism to go around. The same flag flies over both apparently.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 11:15 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Panda, posted 06-05-2013 5:40 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 204 of 313 (700687)
06-06-2013 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by ringo
06-05-2013 1:23 PM


Tower of Babel
So amazing to me that someone can come along and blithely contradict the understanding of the scripture that has been handed down for millennia as if all those who share it merely misunderstood it or are stupid or something. Common charity should forbid such hubris, such chutzpah, but that's in short supply these days among the Bible debunkers. There's really little point in trying to explain the true understanding. It's available in any orthodox Commentary. If you wanted to understand the truth it's available to you, but clearly you don't, you'd rather believe your own crabbed view of Christians.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 06-05-2013 1:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-06-2013 12:21 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 206 of 313 (700689)
06-06-2013 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Dr Adequate
06-06-2013 12:21 AM


Re: Tower of Babel
That the Tower of Babel was human rebellion is standard theology handed down for millennia. The part you quote is normally taken as a clue to this by those who understand the scripture, which obviously you don't. Get a clue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-06-2013 12:21 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-06-2013 12:56 AM Faith has replied
 Message 215 by NoNukes, posted 06-06-2013 6:18 PM Faith has replied

  
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