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Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 211 of 313 (700699)
06-06-2013 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Dr Adequate
06-06-2013 1:15 AM


Re: Tower of Babel
He told Noah to multiply and replenish the earth. That's Genesis 9:1. The command was certainly conveyed to Noah's progeny.

Sola Scriptura does NOT mean we all trust only our own reading of the Bible over any differing views of the preachers and teachers God gave the Church. Sola Scriptura means the Bible is the sole authority, not that it doesn't need interpretation. The difference from the RCC is that they put their traditions which CONTRADICT the Bible on an equal footing with the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-06-2013 1:15 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by ringo, posted 06-07-2013 12:40 PM Faith has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 212 of 313 (700704)
06-06-2013 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Theodoric
06-05-2013 10:59 PM


Re: Endtime Battles
Theodoric writes:

I own a good bit of stock in corporations, primarily through 401K's and IRA's, so I am bad and need to be warred upon?

No, as long as you don't favor the notion that profits do not need to take into consideration employee wages. Wages are not simply some 2 dimensional bottom line expense to be trimmed so as to accommodate a balance sheet. Wages are part of necessary expenses and employees are three dimensional people just as much as stockholders and corporate executives are.

To ignore the needs of domestic wage earners while continuing to focus on shareholder returns and corporate salaries is an evil that should not go unpunished.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Theodoric, posted 06-05-2013 10:59 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31262
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 213 of 313 (700713)
06-06-2013 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Thugpreacha
06-05-2013 10:12 PM


Re: Endtime Battles
Now that would be truly ****** wouldn't it.

Remember it was the middle class that decided that they preferred cheap products over more expensive products. If the middle class were willing to pay extra for things made in the USA then the corporations would provide such things.

But of course, even what you describe would be unrelated to the nonsense called End Time Prophecy.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-05-2013 10:12 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 214 of 313 (700733)
06-06-2013 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
06-04-2013 10:03 PM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
Of course all this is offensive to Catholics but I'd hope to get it across that I'm aware that the vast majority of members of the Catholic Church are good sincere people who would be appalled to know what I'm beginning to know about the history of the RC Church, the papacy and the Jesuits in particular.

You can't even get the most basic and obvious facts about our world correct, so there's no doubt whatever it is you're beginning to "know" is just a bunch of retarded nonsensical lies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 06-04-2013 10:03 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 06-06-2013 11:12 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 215 of 313 (700742)
06-06-2013 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Faith
06-06-2013 12:24 AM


Re: Tower of Babel
The part you quote is normally taken as a clue to this by those who understand the scripture, which obviously you don't.

You've just given the standard, "No true Scotsman" non answer. If you actually cared about sharing, wouldn't it be more effective to briefly outline the reasoning leading your position, than to spit out a quip. Maybe Dr. Adequate is simply incorrigible, but some lurker might be persuaded.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 06-06-2013 12:24 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 06-06-2013 8:21 PM NoNukes has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 216 of 313 (700748)
06-06-2013 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by NoNukes
06-06-2013 6:18 PM


Re: Tower of Babel
Here's Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Tower of Babel from Blue Letter Bible. Number 3 is the main interpretation of most other commentators. Henry quotes Josephus, the Jewish historian in that paragraph.

(1.) It seems designed for an affront to God himself; for they would build a tower whose top might reach to heaven, which bespeaks a defiance of God, or at least a rivalship with him. They would be like the Most High, or would come as near him as they could, not in holiness but in height. They forgot their place, and, scorning to creep on the earth, resolved to climb to heaven, not by the door or ladder, but some other way.

(2.) They hoped hereby to make themselves a name; they would do something to be talked of now, and to give posterity to know that there had been such men as they in the world. Rather than die and leave no memorandum behind them, they would leave this monument of their pride, and ambition, and folly. Note, [1.] Affectation of honour and a name among men commonly inspires with a strange ardour for great and difficult undertakings, and often betrays to that which is evil and offensive to God. [2.] It is just with God to bury those names in the dust which are raised by sin. These Babel-builders put themselves to a great deal of foolish expense to make themselves a name; but they could not gain even this point, for we do not find in any history the name of so much as one of these Babel-builders. Philo Judaeus says, They engraved every one his name upon a brick, in perpetuam rei memoriam—as a perpetual memorial; yet neither did this serve their purpose.

(3.) They did it to prevent their dispersion: Lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth. "It was done’’ (says Josephus) "in disobedience to that command (ch. 9:1), Replenish the earth.’’ God orders them to disperse. "No,’’ say they, "we will not, we will live and die together.’’ In order hereunto, they engage themselves and one another in this vast undertaking. That they might unite in one glorious empire, they resolve to build this city and tower, to be the metropolis of their kingdom and the centre of their unity. It is probable that the band of ambitious Nimrod was in all this. He could not content himself with the command of a particular colony, but aimed at universal monarchy, in order to which, under pretence of uniting for their common safety, he contrives to keep them in one body, that, having them all under his eye, he might not fail to have them under his power. See the daring presumption of these sinners. Here is, [1.] A bold opposition to God: "You shall be scattered,’’ says God. "But we will not,’’ say they. Woe unto him that thus strives with his maker. [2.] A bold competition with God. It is God’s prerogative to be universal monarch, Lord of all, and King of kings; the man that aims at it offers to step into the throne of God, who will not give his glory to another.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by NoNukes, posted 06-06-2013 6:18 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2013 9:51 PM Faith has responded
 Message 223 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2013 12:23 AM Faith has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 217 of 313 (700754)
06-06-2013 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Faith
06-06-2013 8:21 PM


Re: Tower of Babel
Henry quotes Josephus, the Jewish historian in that paragraph.

So what?
Why does what Josephus, a historian(and traitor to the jewish people)not a religious scholar, matter?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 06-06-2013 8:21 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 06-06-2013 11:06 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 220 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-06-2013 11:13 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 218 of 313 (700756)
06-06-2013 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Theodoric
06-06-2013 9:51 PM


Re: Tower of Babel
He's trusted as a historian by many.

And you pick THAT out of three big paragraphs to complain about?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2013 9:51 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Theodoric, posted 06-07-2013 9:18 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 219 of 313 (700757)
06-06-2013 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by New Cat's Eye
06-06-2013 5:13 PM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
You can't even get the most basic and obvious facts about our world correct, so there's no doubt whatever it is you're beginning to "know" is just a bunch of retarded nonsensical lies.

I reject evolution which has nothing to do with getting facts straight, it has to do with REJECTING EVOLUTION, and you make that an excuse to discredit everything else I say. Such integrity.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-06-2013 5:13 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-07-2013 12:07 AM Faith has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 220 of 313 (700758)
06-06-2013 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Theodoric
06-06-2013 9:51 PM


Value Of Josephus Writings
Theodoric writes:

Why does what Josephus, a historian(and traitor to the jewish people)not a religious scholar, matter?

I did a bit of online research and found your summation of Josephus to be far from conclusive nor even a majority view. Sometimes I wonder why so many people try so hard to disprove the obvious.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2013 9:51 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Theodoric, posted 06-07-2013 9:28 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 221 of 313 (700759)
06-06-2013 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Panda
06-05-2013 5:40 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
The integrity here, the graciousness, the charity, the patience to read through everything a person has written, is just SO heartening.

The facts you gave that you think remove your opinion from the realm of opinion are facts I was already aware of and mentioned myself when giving my own opinion. Funny you overlooked that.

I already said I find a special emphasis on the ten in the Wikipedia article on the Council of Europe for three reasons: because they mention the original ten, because they even give a map showing the original ten, and also because it seems likely to me that the Armenian commemorative coin probably reflects the original ten as well (I NEVER said this as if I believe it to be fact, it was always speculation, but you don't seem to care about representing me honestly). You COULD be right about the coin but you could be wrong, you don't know anything about it, your opinion against mine but you treat yours as fact of course.

If you do a 'Faith' and make up things like "The 10 fans on a coin represent the 10 EU founding members!" or "The statue looks like a woman with a cup riding a 10 headed beast!"", then sure -

Again you are misrepresenting what I said about the coin, which was purely speculative, and you are also misrepresenting what I said about the statue of Europa, since all I said and all anybody I've quoted has said is that it's an image of "a woman riding a beast," nothing else. You added the cup and the ten heads. Such integrity.

The flag with the twelve stars was originally designed for the Council of Europe. It is shared by the European Union. They also share the anthem. The other symbols mentioned all belong to the EU -- the building that resembles the Tower of Babel, the statue of Europa riding the bull and so on, so if you object to including the Council of Europe you nevertheless have no honest reason to object to my reading of the symbolism in relation to the EU.

So - your evidence that the EU is involved in the End Of Days is that it shares a flag with the Council of Europe.

I'd suggest here that perhaps you have difficulty with reading, but it's more likely a problem of dishonesty.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Panda, posted 06-05-2013 5:40 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 5:23 AM Faith has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 222 of 313 (700761)
06-07-2013 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Faith
06-06-2013 11:12 PM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
I reject evolution which has nothing to do with getting facts straight, it has to do with REJECTING EVOLUTION, and you make that an excuse to discredit everything else I say. Such integrity.

Its very telling that your faith has more to do with REJECTING EVOLUTION than it does getting your facts straight. That's eludes most of the problem with worshiping the Bible, itself, first and foremost before even God or Christ.

But I wasn't talking about just rejecting evolution. I was talking about even basic and obvious stuff. Your posting history speaks for itself.

Here's a recent concrete example:

Message 357

You just make up whatever bullshit you have to in order to keep that magic book of yours suitable for worship.

I don't really give a shit what you believe, but you are spreading lies about a group of people that includes me. And your pride and arrogance just rub me the wrong way.

I don't have to discredit you because you have zero credit already. You're a laughingstock. A disgrace to both Christians and America.

How's that for integrity?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 06-06-2013 11:12 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 06-07-2013 12:56 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 223 of 313 (700762)
06-07-2013 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Faith
06-06-2013 8:21 PM


Re: Tower of Babel
quote:
which bespeaks a defiance of God, or at least a rivalship with him.

Isn't this pretty much the thrust of Dr. Adequate's position? I think everyone sees the rivalship interpretation of the Tower of Babel incident, and even the commentator admits a weakness in support for going beyond that to definance.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 06-06-2013 8:21 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Faith, posted 06-07-2013 12:48 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 224 of 313 (700763)
06-07-2013 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by NoNukes
06-07-2013 12:23 AM


Re: Tower of Babel
Yes I should have acknowledged that I suppose. It's the mean attitude in his opinion that takes over unfortunately.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2013 12:23 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 225 of 313 (700764)
06-07-2013 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by New Cat's Eye
06-07-2013 12:07 AM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
Sorry, I am not spreading lies, though you'd like to think so. I've been very careful to differentiate between the average Catholic's understanding and the institution. You need to look into these things yourself.

You are obviously a Catholic in name only anyway, so you are merely arguing from a superficial loyalty. You've revealed enough of your life to show that you aren't obeying God and obviously don't care to. You aren't saved and apparently aren't interested. But if you were, if you were a really serious Catholic, as I know many are, you'd need to be warned that following the RCC rules will not save you.

But making such an issue of my views on evolution is pretty low stuff in the service of your need to discredit me because of my other opinions. I still agree with what I said back there too.

AND AGAIN: How come people here can say the ugliest and yes lyingest things against MY beliefs, against "fundamentalists" and against Bible believers, including that we support "genocide" among other things, and we're supposed to take it -- and we also represent a lot of people -- but if someone points out the known historical evils in Catholicism you treat it as a completely different sort of offense, an intolerable offense. How come?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-07-2013 12:07 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
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