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Author Topic:   Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 451 of 759 (702684)
07-10-2013 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 446 by Faith
07-10-2013 6:24 PM


I have no idea what you might do about the insurance and the taxes and I think that's rather a self-centered conceit that you want to share them as if you were a normal married couple.
Normal? Really? What is normal?
I believe children need a stable traditional family with heterosexual parents so I don't think gays should have children at all.
What about single parent families?
I also understand that there is evidence children raised by gays tend to be depressed, which makes sense to me.
I also believe there is evidence that only hetero couples can produce gay children. Gay children are ONLY the result of hetero unions. Gay couples do not produce gay children.
Even if the whole society says it's OK a child is going to know there's something wrong with the situation.
No, that is a lie. Something you made up.
And have to suppress such feelings too because supposedly it's just another normal alternative
There's that word again. "Normal". What is normal? Who decides what normal is?
I just don't think it's right to stack the deck psychologically against what has always been considered normal family life.
Could you tell us more about how "normal" families have faired and why you feel they do a better job?
Children should be given a chance at a normal life as long as there is a choice in the matter.
What is normal?

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 6:24 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2013 9:05 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 452 of 759 (702689)
07-10-2013 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by yenmor
07-10-2013 7:17 PM


Would it be fair for me to say that if my partner and I start adopting children that they will fair better than if they spend their lives in the system until they turn 18?
They will probably fare better. Whether they fair better might depend on how much peroxide you use.
(Just injecting a little humor into the thread).

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by yenmor, posted 07-10-2013 7:17 PM yenmor has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 453 of 759 (702692)
07-10-2013 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 451 by hooah212002
07-10-2013 7:45 PM


Even if the whole society says it's OK a child is going to know there's something wrong with the situation.
No, that is a lie. Something you made up.
Actually I think there is quite a bit of truth to this.
If our society sanctioned gay parentage we would still have entire communities of religious bigots rubbing the childrens' young innocent faces in the mud telling them their "parents" are sinners and that they are all going to burn in hell because they are not normal.
That will certainly give a child pause.
If the christian bigots would practice their creed and treat all the little ones with the love they deserve then there would be no sad little faces being taunted by christian bullies in the schoolyard.
So Faith is correct. The poor children will have concerns because the christians will keep throwing stones at them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by hooah212002, posted 07-10-2013 7:45 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 454 by hooah212002, posted 07-10-2013 9:18 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 454 of 759 (702693)
07-10-2013 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 453 by AZPaul3
07-10-2013 9:05 PM


Well, yea, I could see that. I took her saying the "whole society" as in everyone and they wouldn't encounter bigots. As in: the kids would just know that it's wrong even if no one ever tells them it is wrong.
It's all hyperbole and make believe anyways because we won't ive to see the day where someone's sexual orientation matters to anyone. That is why I said it was a lie and something she made up.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2013 9:05 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 9:44 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 457 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2013 10:00 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 455 of 759 (702694)
07-10-2013 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 454 by hooah212002
07-10-2013 9:18 PM


Yes that is what I meant, they would just know it's wrong even if the whole society conspired to tell them otherwise. As soon as they know something about how babies are made they will know it whether they are allowed to honestly recognize it or not. What silliness you all indulge here.
"Sexual orientation" is a very recent euphemism for what was always regarded by all societies until quite recently as an aberration, something abnormal, even where it's been indulged that much has been known, and it's always belonged to a fringe area of society. It's only in our wacko age that you want to make an aberration into a normality. And just like the naked emperor I'm sure you can convince many of your misguided nonsense.
And just to answer the nonsense about how a couple calling themselves married doesn't affect the rest of us, our individual marriages and all that craziness, that's not the point and has never been the point. The point is how a whole society defines marriage and that's what changes. Marriage has been recognized by all societies in all times as between a man and a woman, the only combination that has the natural potential of conceiving and bearing children, and it makes no sense between any other parties. Nero as far as I know was the only one who married some gay people. Great example there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by hooah212002, posted 07-10-2013 9:18 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 465 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-11-2013 12:36 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 467 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-11-2013 1:41 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 469 by PaulK, posted 07-11-2013 2:18 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 456 of 759 (702695)
07-10-2013 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by yenmor
07-10-2013 7:17 PM


There are statistics that say otherwise. Salon dot com and Huffington Post rather set the tone for your list, a biased collection of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by yenmor, posted 07-10-2013 7:17 PM yenmor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 461 by yenmor, posted 07-10-2013 11:16 PM Faith has replied
 Message 466 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-11-2013 12:39 AM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 457 of 759 (702696)
07-10-2013 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 454 by hooah212002
07-10-2013 9:18 PM


Pointy Sticks
Well, yea, I could see that. I took her saying ...
I really wasn't challenging your statement. Just using your message as a platform to throw pointy sticks at Faith.
It's all hyperbole and make believe anyways because we won't live to see the day where someone's sexual orientation matters to anyone.
[loads up the spear-thrower]
You're right. Sad, isn't it. But that's christian for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by hooah212002, posted 07-10-2013 9:18 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 458 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 10:07 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 458 of 759 (702697)
07-10-2013 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by AZPaul3
07-10-2013 10:00 PM


Re: Pointy Sticks
Is pedophilia a "sexual orientation" that shouldn't matter to us? Dr. A posted something that suggests he thinks so. Should we not be upset at the gay priests who have molested young boys? It's just "normal" after all, just a normal alternative sexual orientation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2013 10:00 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 459 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2013 10:27 PM Faith has replied
 Message 460 by Coyote, posted 07-10-2013 11:08 PM Faith has replied
 Message 462 by hooah212002, posted 07-10-2013 11:17 PM Faith has replied
 Message 464 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-11-2013 12:22 AM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 459 of 759 (702699)
07-10-2013 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by Faith
07-10-2013 10:07 PM


Re: Pointy Sticks
Is pedophilia a "sexual orientation" ...
And just how does pedophilia enter into this discussion of gay marriage?
And how does religious leaders porking boys impact the discussion on whether a stable loving gay couple could provide a stable loving home for children?
Hateful fear mongering: another well established christian tactic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 10:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by Faith, posted 07-11-2013 2:17 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 460 of 759 (702700)
07-10-2013 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by Faith
07-10-2013 10:07 PM


Re: Pointy Sticks
Perhaps it would be best for you and others like you to mind to your own knitting?
What business is it of yours what other people do anyway?
(Mrs. Grundy lives!)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 10:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by Faith, posted 07-11-2013 2:18 AM Coyote has not replied

  
yenmor
Member (Idle past 3655 days)
Posts: 145
Joined: 07-01-2013


(1)
Message 461 of 759 (702701)
07-10-2013 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by Faith
07-10-2013 9:48 PM


I'm puzzled about something. Biased or not, those sites cited the most recent study. I even posted a link to the published article itself. Do you dispute the researchers' findings? If so, which parts?
Also, could you post the statistics to support your claim so we could discuss them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 9:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by hooah212002, posted 07-10-2013 11:19 PM yenmor has not replied
 Message 471 by Faith, posted 07-11-2013 2:20 AM yenmor has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 462 of 759 (702702)
07-10-2013 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by Faith
07-10-2013 10:07 PM


Re: Pointy Sticks
Are both parties consenting adults, legally able to even give consent?
Is pedophilia
That should answer your question, then, since pedophilia has nothing to do with gay marriage and is not concerning consenting adults.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 10:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 472 by Faith, posted 07-11-2013 2:22 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 463 of 759 (702703)
07-10-2013 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 461 by yenmor
07-10-2013 11:16 PM


Do you dispute the researchers' findings?
Faith disputes reality that is contrary to her beloved bible, so of course she disputes findings that are contrary to her bigotry.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by yenmor, posted 07-10-2013 11:16 PM yenmor has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 464 of 759 (702706)
07-11-2013 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 458 by Faith
07-10-2013 10:07 PM


Re: Pointy Sticks
Is pedophilia a "sexual orientation" that shouldn't matter to us? Dr. A posted something that suggests he thinks so.
Liar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 10:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 465 of 759 (702707)
07-11-2013 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 455 by Faith
07-10-2013 9:44 PM


Yes that is what I meant, they would just know it's wrong even if the whole society conspired to tell them otherwise. As soon as they know something about how babies are made they will know it whether they are allowed to honestly recognize it or not.
Er ... but the children of gay couples do not in fact "just know it's wrong". What they generally know is that it's fine and that the only problem is the existence of bigoted jerks, who are wrong. If you're going to appeal to what the children "just know", then what they "just know" is that you should STFU.
"Sexual orientation" is a very recent euphemism for what was always regarded by all societies until quite recently as an aberration, something abnormal ...
As something unusual, perhaps, like having red hair. Not all societies have regarded it as wrong.
And just to answer the nonsense about how a couple calling themselves married doesn't affect the rest of us, our individual marriages and all that craziness, that's not the point and has never been the point.
Why isn't that the point? It seems like a very good point.
The point is how a whole society defines marriage and that's what changes.
Why is that the point?
Of all inconsequential things, the definition of a word is perhaps the least consequential. If there's a bunch of loving couples that want to get married, and the only objection is that it will create a one-off small piece of extra labor for lexicographers, then that's not much of an objection.
Marriage has been recognized by all societies in all times as between a man and a woman ...
I can think of exceptions. For example, consider the time popularly known as "now" and the societies of Holland, Belgium, Spain, Canada, South Africa, Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Iceland, Argentina, France, Uruguay, New Zealand ...
Nero as far as I know was the only one who married some gay people.
Yes, well, if you were more widely known, then "as far as Faith knows" would have a good chance of becoming a colloquialism for untruth.
History of same-sex unions.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Faith, posted 07-10-2013 9:44 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 625 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-18-2013 12:13 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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