Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8936 total)
20 online now:
DrJones*, dwise1, RAZD (3 members, 17 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: ssope
Post Volume: Total: 861,614 Year: 16,650/19,786 Month: 775/2,598 Week: 21/251 Day: 21/23 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Question for creationists: Why would you rather believe in a small God?
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 61 of 301 (703028)
07-13-2013 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Dr Adequate
07-13-2013 11:22 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
As I followed your thread on Geology I found nothing to object to as a YEC until very late in the thread. Fact.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-13-2013 11:22 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-13-2013 11:34 PM Faith has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 62 of 301 (703029)
07-13-2013 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
07-13-2013 11:25 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
As I followed your thread on Geology I found nothing to object to as a YEC until very late in the thread. Fact.

Did you not read it, or just not understand it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 11:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 11:44 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 301 (703030)
07-13-2013 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Dr Adequate
07-13-2013 11:34 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Read it, understood it, appreciated it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-13-2013 11:34 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 2:36 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member (Idle past 360 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 64 of 301 (703036)
07-14-2013 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
07-13-2013 10:58 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
I said that the sciences don't need the Old Earth concept.

Fields of science do not just discard evidence and theories because of some old tribal myths that may be disproved by them.

And further, science is an interwoven whole--you can't just take certain sections and discard them without affecting other sections.

For example, if you claim that radiometric dating is inaccurate, you must explain why, and your explanation must also fit with other data and theory. No young earther has yet been able to do this. Even the RATE boys, after spending over a million dollars in creationist money had to give up and resort to belief--the evidence they themselves generated agreed with science and refuted the young earth position!

In other words, you are just rejecting some fields of science because they don't fit with your favorite old tribal myths, not because there is any real scientific evidence against those fields.

And you try to make up quite clever rationalizations to justify your chosen beliefs, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Sorry, but I find that contrary to everything that it means to be a rational human being.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 10:58 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 12:39 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 301 (703037)
07-14-2013 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Coyote
07-14-2013 12:37 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Fact remains: 90% or more of the actual work done in the sciences is perfectly acceptable to a YEC.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Coyote, posted 07-14-2013 12:37 AM Coyote has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 3:04 AM Faith has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 66 of 301 (703039)
07-14-2013 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
07-13-2013 11:44 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Read it, understood it, appreciated it.

Clearly not.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 11:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 67 of 301 (703042)
07-14-2013 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
07-14-2013 12:39 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Fact remains: 90% or more of the actual work done in the sciences is perfectly acceptable to a YEC.

Fact remains, I've seen YECs in the pursuit of YECism be wrong about geology, paleontology, genetics, thermodynamics, angular momentum, astronomy, anatomy, animal behavior, the speed of light, nuclear physics, gravity, meteorology, Newtonian physics, the theory of relativity, the history of science, the scientific method ... basically, it would be possible to get a good well-rounded scientific education just by studying why creationists are wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 12:39 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 4:05 AM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 71 by foreveryoung, posted 07-14-2013 1:06 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 68 of 301 (703046)
07-14-2013 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Adequate
07-14-2013 3:04 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Anybody's being wrong about anything doesn't change the fact that 90% of all the scientific work done is quite acceptable to YECs.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 3:04 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Tangle, posted 07-14-2013 4:21 AM Faith has responded
 Message 73 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 4:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 69 of 301 (703047)
07-14-2013 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
07-14-2013 4:05 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Anybody's being wrong about anything doesn't change the fact that 90% of all the scientific work done is quite acceptable to YECs.

You mean 100%. You accept what scientific knowledge brings you, you simply say that it's wrong. Weird stuff denial.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 4:05 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 12:55 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 70 of 301 (703053)
07-14-2013 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Tangle
07-14-2013 4:21 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
You mean 100%. You accept what scientific knowledge brings you, you simply say that it's wrong. Weird stuff denial.

No I meant 90%, a guess at how much of the science is uncontaminated with Old Earth / evolutionist assumptions. About that much of Dr. A's Geology Course was good stuff from a YEC point of view so I figure roughly the same for the other sciences. Of course in practice, especially in popular accounts in the biological sciences, you can hardly find a simple factual statement, it's all distorted by fantastic age assumptions among other things. But you can ferret out the uncontaminated facts if you work at it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Tangle, posted 07-14-2013 4:21 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 4:11 PM Faith has responded
 Message 131 by hooah212002, posted 07-15-2013 9:11 PM Faith has responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(6)
Message 71 of 301 (703054)
07-14-2013 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Adequate
07-14-2013 3:04 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
This is similar to how I learned. I tried to argue YEC and met with arguments from every field of science. It exposed me to a lot as I investigated each argument.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 3:04 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17276
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 72 of 301 (703056)
07-14-2013 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
07-13-2013 10:58 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

ringo writes:

So you're defining "science" as something that doesn't need science books or even scientists.


No I did not say that. I said that the sciences don't need the Old Earth concept.

But the science books and the scientists say they do need the Old Earth concept. Effectively, you are throwing out the science books and the scientists with the bathwater.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 10:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 73 of 301 (703058)
07-14-2013 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
07-14-2013 4:05 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Anybody's being wrong about anything doesn't change the fact that 90% of all the scientific work done is quite acceptable to YECs.

But I didn't just say they were wrong, I said they were wrong in pursuit of YECism. And pointing out the facts that contradict their fictions is not "quite acceptable" to them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 4:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 74 of 301 (703059)
07-14-2013 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
07-14-2013 12:55 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
No I meant 90%, a guess at how much of the science is uncontaminated with Old Earth / evolutionist assumptions. About that much of Dr. A's Geology Course was good stuff from a YEC point of view ...

You keep saying that. Very well, here's the textbook. Please nominate 90% of the articles in it as consisting of stuff that, from here on out, you will never argue with again.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 12:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 6:33 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 75 of 301 (703065)
07-14-2013 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Dr Adequate
07-14-2013 4:11 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Too much to ask. My general statement is good enough. Wherever facts are presented without the usual ridiculous ancient age suppositions attached to them, a YEC has no problem with them.

Rest deleted.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 4:11 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-14-2013 11:51 PM Faith has responded
 Message 80 by Tangle, posted 07-15-2013 3:31 AM Faith has responded

    
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019