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Author Topic:   Question for creationists: Why would you rather believe in a small God?
PaulK
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Posts: 15639
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 151 of 301 (703170)
07-16-2013 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Faith
07-16-2013 10:45 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
quote:

Yeah the order of the fossil record appears to be consistent, but that's not testability

Sure it is. If we suddenly started finding formations drastically at odds with it we'd have to think again.

quote:

You need something outside the fossil record that validates your interpretation.

I don't think so. But it depends on what you want validating. The fact of the order in the fossil record is best validated by getting replication from different sites, for instance.

quote:

The Flood explanation has more testability than that, since layers do form in water

Testability doesn't mean jumping to conclusions based on a superficial analysis and it certainly doesn't mean looking for things that might support a hypothesis. The whole point of testing is to look for falsifications.


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vimesey
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From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
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(1)
Message 152 of 301 (703171)
07-16-2013 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
07-16-2013 10:46 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Remarkable how the evos bring the Bible into this discussion when all I've brought into it is scientific considerations.

Are you seriously trying to maintain that some scientists looked at the geological evidence, then said "You know what, all this evidence points to something like a global flood about 4,000 or so years ago. What's that Leeroy ? Are you saying that something called...what was that...'the Bible'...said that the world was destroyed by a flood sent by God about 4,000 years ago ? You are totally shitting me Leeroy !!!"

"Evos" (aka people who understand the scientific method) simply follow where the evidence takes them. The only reason that global floods ever get mentioned in the context of geology is because creationists start there with their desired conclusion, and then desperately try to cherry pick and warp the evidence to fit the desired result.

If you say there is evidence of a global flood, you are referencing the bible. That's what you do Faith, not us "evos".

Edited by vimesey, : Better tribute to Mr Jenkins by spelling his name right.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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Faith
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Posts: 33872
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 153 of 301 (703172)
07-16-2013 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by vimesey
07-16-2013 11:32 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
I've brought up the Flood in terms of the evidence for it, not the source of the idea.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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jar
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Posts: 31766
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 154 of 301 (703175)
07-16-2013 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
07-16-2013 11:35 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
No, you have misrepresented the evidence for a flood and when those misrepresentations have been pointed out to you you have refused to present the flood model for what you claim.

There is NO evidence of the Biblical Flood and anyone today who makes such a claim is simply wrong.

It really is that simple.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 11:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
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Posts: 17665
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 155 of 301 (703176)
07-16-2013 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
07-16-2013 11:35 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

I've brought up the Flood in terms of the evidence for it, not the source of the idea.


I think I've asked you this question twice before and you've never answered it: When you see a pile of leaves, do you take that as evidence that they all came from the same tree?

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Faith
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Posts: 33872
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 156 of 301 (703178)
07-16-2013 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
07-16-2013 12:07 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Yeah jar we can have that argument again I suppose, but all I said was that I brought up the Flood in terms of the evidence for it, which is the case whether you think there is evidence for it or not.

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 Message 154 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 12:07 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
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Posts: 31766
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 157 of 301 (703181)
07-16-2013 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
07-16-2013 12:27 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Except you have never, ever actually presented any such evidence.

If you believe that you actually do have evidence we can certainly start a thread where you can present it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 12:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
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Posts: 33872
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 158 of 301 (703194)
07-16-2013 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
07-16-2013 12:38 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Of course I've given evidence, the main evidence being the very fact of the layers of separate sediments themselves, which is far easier explained in terms of what water does than in terms of millions of years to lay down each separate layer. Which is absurd.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 1:38 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 1:42 PM Faith has responded
 Message 161 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 1:46 PM Faith has responded
 Message 189 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-16-2013 6:59 PM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 15639
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 159 of 301 (703195)
07-16-2013 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:30 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Millions of years are not as absurd as ONE year, which is what your Flood "hypothesis" says.

And even less absurd when you recognise that those millions of years represent a complex history with long periods of non-deposition and erosion.


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ringo
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Posts: 17665
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 160 of 301 (703196)
07-16-2013 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:30 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Of course I've given evidence, the main evidence being the very fact of the layers of separate sediments themselves....


So answer the question: When you see a pile of leaves, do you assume that they all came from one tree?

If not, why would you assume that all of the layers came from one flood?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:47 PM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31766
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 161 of 301 (703197)
07-16-2013 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:30 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Sorry but it seems that you really don't even know what evidence is.

You have asserted that a flood could lay down the layers seen but that is of course simply another of your lies.

Please explain how a flood could lay down a series of millions of repeating and alternating layers of fine sediment then coarser sediment.

The idea of a Biblical flood has been soundly refuted for over 150 years and was refuted by believers in teh Biblical flood.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin u-->a


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
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Posts: 33872
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 162 of 301 (703198)
07-16-2013 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by ringo
07-16-2013 1:42 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
I don't "assume" it, I conclude it to be so because any other explanation makes no sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 1:42 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 1:53 PM Faith has responded
 Message 167 by Tangle, posted 07-16-2013 2:01 PM Faith has responded
 Message 174 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 3:04 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 33872
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 163 of 301 (703199)
07-16-2013 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by jar
07-16-2013 1:46 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
THE Flood was not "A flood," it was something that never happened before or since and it's ridiculous to try to compare it to any lesser flood. It was a rising of the OCEAN covering all the continents (or the one huge continent at that time anyway), involving ocean currents and waves and the fact that ocean water is naturally layered anyway. The ocean carries things in its layers and currents and waves and deposits them on land, this is everyday knowledge. It would have had an enormous baggage of pulverized sediments as a result of the saturation of the land. Etc. etc. etc.

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 Message 161 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 1:46 PM jar has responded

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ringo
Member
Posts: 17665
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 164 of 301 (703200)
07-16-2013 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:47 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

I don't "assume" it, I conclude it to be so because any other explanation makes no sense.


When you see a pile of leaves, do you "conclude" that they all came from one tree because any other explanation makes no sense?

What you've shown is evidence that floods happen. We already knew that. I've seen four myself.

What you haven't shown is evidence of one giant tree or one giant flood. That is what makes no sense. And you know it makes no sense because you don't use the same logic to conclude that all leaves come from one giant tree.


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 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 33872
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 165 of 301 (703201)
07-16-2013 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by ringo
07-16-2013 1:53 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
worldwide strata is evidence of a worldwide flood.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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