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Author Topic:   Question for creationists: Why would you rather believe in a small God?
jar
Member
Posts: 31753
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 166 of 301 (703202)
07-16-2013 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:51 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Again, you simply start from a conclusion, make a bunch of unsupported assertions, present no evidence whatsoever and say "the flud did it".

And so once again...

Please explain how a flood could lay down a series of millions of repeating and alternating layers of fine sediment then coarser sediment.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin : added s to make assertion plural


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 163 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:51 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7183
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 167 of 301 (703203)
07-16-2013 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:47 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

I don't "assume" it, I conclude it to be so because any other explanation makes no sense.

1. Even if no other explanations make sense to you, you still need evidence to support the one you believe.

2. Go out into your garden and get a couple of handfuls of earth; if you can get some sand and grit too so much the better. Tip it into an large glass jug, shake it up well, then let it stand for an hour.

You have just simulated a flood followed by settlement.

You'll notice that sediment is in layers with the largest particles at the bottom and the finest at the top.

That is simple physics and is replicated in nature when floods occur. It is absolutely NOT what geological formations show. We see many layers of all sorts of sizes all out of order.

Think about that for a while.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 2:03 PM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33848
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 168 of 301 (703204)
07-16-2013 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Tangle
07-16-2013 2:01 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Oh right, compare a worldwide flood with what happens in a jug in your backyard. What YOU need to think about is what OCEANS do, which I just described up a few posts. Jug indeed!

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Tangle, posted 07-16-2013 2:01 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Tangle, posted 07-16-2013 2:45 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17646
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 169 of 301 (703205)
07-16-2013 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:56 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

worldwide strata is evidence of a worldwide flood.


Worldwide leaves are evidence of a worldwide tree? Come on.

Worldwide strata are evidence of floods - floods in different areas, overlapping floods, floods above and below deserts. They are not evidence of a worldwide flood any more than a worldwide tree.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:56 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 2:13 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33848
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 170 of 301 (703206)
07-16-2013 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by ringo
07-16-2013 2:05 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Nonsensical comparison. The strata are too uniform to be the result of separate incidents. Not identical, uniform.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 2:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2013 2:17 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 172 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 2:18 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 301 (703207)
07-16-2013 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
07-16-2013 2:13 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Ahem: Message 149

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 2:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17646
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 172 of 301 (703208)
07-16-2013 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
07-16-2013 2:13 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Nonsensical comparison. The strata are too uniform to be the result of separate incidents. Not identical, uniform.


On the contrary, the leaves are far more uniform than most flood layers.

Only your logic is nonsensical.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 2:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7183
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 173 of 301 (703210)
07-16-2013 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Faith
07-16-2013 2:03 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:


Oh right, compare a worldwide flood with what happens in a jug in your backyard. What YOU need to think about is what OCEANS do, which I just described up a few posts. Jug indeed!

We KNOW what oceans and rivers and floods do because we can see them and measure them in action. They obey the laws of physics which means that when a flood subsides heavy particles fall to the bottom first and lighter take longer. Heavy particles never fall last - or do you have evidence that shows the opposite?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 2:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15627
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 174 of 301 (703211)
07-16-2013 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:47 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
quote:

I don't "assume" it, I conclude it to be so because any other explanation makes no sense.

By which you mean that you reject other explanations out of hand and insist that the explanation you like has to be the one. Hardly a great argument.

So let's go back to that quartzite boulder.

It makes sense to say that the stratum that the boulder came from was deposited, lithified and metamorphosed to become quartzite. Then it was eroded, so the boulder was separated from the main mass of the rock. And only then was it buried in sand which would become sandstone.

It doesn't make sense to say that a big Flood did all that in the span of a year. And if you allowed even a year for that you would have no time for everything above it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 3:48 PM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33848
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 175 of 301 (703213)
07-16-2013 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by PaulK
07-16-2013 3:04 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Obviously it happened a lot faster than you would expect it to happen, that's all. I don't have a question how the boulder broke off -- that was due to the friction between the layers when the lower ones were tilted up against the upper layer by the volcanic eruption beneath, during the Flood period, and of course the sandstone in which the boulder is embedded was scraped off mostly from the layer above, still wet of course, and was solidified along with all the other layers in the whole column. That's my theory. The theory by Paul Garner's group is that a very rough slurry abraded the tilted layers during the Flood, but the tilted layers were there already. The only question I have had is why that particular layer became quartzite when the layers on both sides of it aren't metamorphosed.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 3:04 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 4:23 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33848
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 176 of 301 (703214)
07-16-2013 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by New Cat's Eye
07-16-2013 10:57 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
I don't feel like going out of my way for someone who calls me intellectually dishonest. And I don't much care if this thread is way off topic either, because the Admins don't seem to care and the original topic is silly anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2013 10:57 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2013 4:19 PM Faith has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 177 of 301 (703215)
07-16-2013 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
07-16-2013 4:17 PM


Re: Science meets Faith

Run away and cower.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 4:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 4:20 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33848
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 178 of 301 (703216)
07-16-2013 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by New Cat's Eye
07-16-2013 4:19 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Yeah, that kind of accusation will really earn you points. With everybody else here but me of course. Lawlessness abounds at EvC forum these days, in more ways than one.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2013 4:19 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2013 4:28 PM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15627
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 179 of 301 (703217)
07-16-2013 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Faith
07-16-2013 3:48 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
quote:

Obviously it happened a lot faster than you would expect it to happen, that's all.

OK, what makes it obvious ? Can you give any real evidence that it's even possible in the little time you allow ?

quote:

I don't have a question how the boulder broke off -- that was due to the friction between the layers when the lower ones were tilted up against the upper layer by the volcanic eruption beneath, during the Flood period, and of course the sandstone in which the boulder is embedded was scraped off mostly from the layer above, still wet of course, and was solidified along with all the other layers in the whole column. That's my theory

So what evidence is there that this alleged volcanic eruption had any effect on the quartzite at all ? And there's no sign of the sandstone being "scraped off" another layer either (it's where it "should" be). And don't forget that the quartzite layer had to already be solid hard rock.

quote:

The only question I have had is why that particular layer became quartzite when the layers on both sides of it aren't metamorphosed

I think that the metamorphism may be due to the intrusions of igneous rock, but I can't find an explanation of how the metamorphism occurred so that's speculation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 3:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 4:36 PM PaulK has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 180 of 301 (703218)
07-16-2013 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Faith
07-16-2013 4:20 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
You're worthless anyways. Actually, due to your dishonesty, you're making this place worse off.

You're a side-show freak that everyone is laughing at. People can't resist poking you with a stick.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 4:20 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 4:38 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
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