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Author Topic:   Question for creationists: Why would you rather believe in a small God?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 143 of 301 (703159)
07-16-2013 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by PaulK
07-16-2013 4:25 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
But the FACT of the ordering of the fossil record is itself an observation, and one that YECs have failed to explain.
Nevertheless, ALL you have is this observation and your interpretation of it and that is not science, it's hypothesis at best, untested, unproved. You have nothing replicable or testable, you have only your conjecture. There are other facts about the geologic column that are far better explained by the worldwide flood that need to be put up against your interpretation of the fossil order. Nobody is talking about "proven beyond all doubt," we're talking about replicability and testability. Your entire theory is nothing BUT theory, conjecture, period. You have no REAL evidence.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 4:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 147 of 301 (703165)
07-16-2013 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by PaulK
07-16-2013 4:46 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Yeah the order of the fossil record appears to be consistent, but that's not testability. You need something outside the fossil record that validates your interpretation. The Flood explanation has more testability than that, since layers do form in water.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 4:46 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 148 of 301 (703166)
07-16-2013 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by vimesey
07-16-2013 5:04 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Remarkable how the evos bring the Bible into this discussion when all I've brought into it is scientific considerations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by vimesey, posted 07-16-2013 5:04 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 153 of 301 (703172)
07-16-2013 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by vimesey
07-16-2013 11:32 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
I've brought up the Flood in terms of the evidence for it, not the source of the idea.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 156 of 301 (703178)
07-16-2013 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
07-16-2013 12:07 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Yeah jar we can have that argument again I suppose, but all I said was that I brought up the Flood in terms of the evidence for it, which is the case whether you think there is evidence for it or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 12:07 PM jar has replied

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 Message 157 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 12:38 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 301 (703194)
07-16-2013 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
07-16-2013 12:38 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Of course I've given evidence, the main evidence being the very fact of the layers of separate sediments themselves, which is far easier explained in terms of what water does than in terms of millions of years to lay down each separate layer. Which is absurd.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 12:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 160 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 1:42 PM Faith has replied
 Message 161 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 1:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 189 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-16-2013 6:59 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 301 (703198)
07-16-2013 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by ringo
07-16-2013 1:42 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
I don't "assume" it, I conclude it to be so because any other explanation makes no sense.

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 Message 160 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 1:42 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 1:53 PM Faith has replied
 Message 167 by Tangle, posted 07-16-2013 2:01 PM Faith has replied
 Message 174 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 3:04 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 163 of 301 (703199)
07-16-2013 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by jar
07-16-2013 1:46 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
THE Flood was not "A flood," it was something that never happened before or since and it's ridiculous to try to compare it to any lesser flood. It was a rising of the OCEAN covering all the continents (or the one huge continent at that time anyway), involving ocean currents and waves and the fact that ocean water is naturally layered anyway. The ocean carries things in its layers and currents and waves and deposits them on land, this is everyday knowledge. It would have had an enormous baggage of pulverized sediments as a result of the saturation of the land. Etc. etc. etc.

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 Message 161 by jar, posted 07-16-2013 1:46 PM jar has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 165 of 301 (703201)
07-16-2013 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by ringo
07-16-2013 1:53 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
worldwide strata is evidence of a worldwide flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 1:53 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 2:05 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 168 of 301 (703204)
07-16-2013 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Tangle
07-16-2013 2:01 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Oh right, compare a worldwide flood with what happens in a jug in your backyard. What YOU need to think about is what OCEANS do, which I just described up a few posts. Jug indeed!
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 170 of 301 (703206)
07-16-2013 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by ringo
07-16-2013 2:05 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Nonsensical comparison. The strata are too uniform to be the result of separate incidents. Not identical, uniform.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 07-16-2013 2:05 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 175 of 301 (703213)
07-16-2013 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by PaulK
07-16-2013 3:04 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Obviously it happened a lot faster than you would expect it to happen, that's all. I don't have a question how the boulder broke off -- that was due to the friction between the layers when the lower ones were tilted up against the upper layer by the volcanic eruption beneath, during the Flood period, and of course the sandstone in which the boulder is embedded was scraped off mostly from the layer above, still wet of course, and was solidified along with all the other layers in the whole column. That's my theory. The theory by Paul Garner's group is that a very rough slurry abraded the tilted layers during the Flood, but the tilted layers were there already. The only question I have had is why that particular layer became quartzite when the layers on both sides of it aren't metamorphosed.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 3:04 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 4:23 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 176 of 301 (703214)
07-16-2013 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by New Cat's Eye
07-16-2013 10:57 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
I don't feel like going out of my way for someone who calls me intellectually dishonest. And I don't much care if this thread is way off topic either, because the Admins don't seem to care and the original topic is silly anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2013 10:57 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2013 4:19 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 178 of 301 (703216)
07-16-2013 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by New Cat's Eye
07-16-2013 4:19 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Yeah, that kind of accusation will really earn you points. With everybody else here but me of course. Lawlessness abounds at EvC forum these days, in more ways than one.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 181 of 301 (703219)
07-16-2013 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by PaulK
07-16-2013 4:23 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
The sandstone had to have been scraped off something, it's part of the belt that's always described as erosion. The layer above is sandstone.
The volcano would have provided both heat and pressure forcing the tilting of the lower layers up against the upper layers, enough to metamorphose the lower rocks.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2013 4:23 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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