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Author | Topic: Is God one or three? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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You do realise that you're arguing with a Jew who is hardly going to be persuaded by an argument based almost entirely on Christian scripture?
And I might note that arguing by link is against forum guidelines.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You do realise that you're arguing with a Jew who is hardly going to be persuaded by an argument based almost entirely on Christian scripture? But not entirely, enough is based on the OT to make the case, not to mention that on the general subject of the Messiah I showed that there are Jewish teachers who recognize the Suffering Servant as Messianic, which any honest person ought to acknowledge undoes any accusation that Christians made it up. And YOU do realize, I hope, that he's arguing with a Christian who is hardly going to be persuaded by an argument based entirely on Jewish traditional debunkery of the claims of Christ that the Church has dealt with over and over down the centuries. He needs to be answered whether he himself benefits from the answer or not.
And I might note that arguing by link is against forum guidelines. We've had this discussion about this particular link on the thread Bible Something or Traditions of Men, where Purpledawn defended my use of it because I did sketch out the basic argument the link supports and because the entire collection of scriptures is the answer to the challenge, no one or few points being sufficient for the purpose.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: I'm afraid not. There,s very little, and what little there is relies on interpretations that would need to be defended. Which you aren't doing.
quote: And now you're trying to drag the discussion off-topic.
quote: If all you can do is drag up a link that doesn't really deal with his point then you aren't exactly managing to answer him.
quote: Which doesn't make it appropriate to this thread and doesn't excuse your lack of further argument even if Purpledawn was entirely correct (which I don't accept)
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
In the picture is one clover with three leaves. That gives us one clover who is three. (leaves} No, there is only one clover in that picture. The clover is not three, it is one. But of course you're just playing dumb to try to discredit the trinity doctrine.
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Eliyahu Member (Idle past 2260 days) Posts: 288 From: Judah Joined: |
No, there is only one clover in that picture. The clover is not three, it is one. Bs'd Can you understand the difference between "one clover" and "the clover is one"?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I have a question for you, Eliyahu. Who is Jesus? Lets assume for a moment that you are correct and that there indeed is only One God.(Which I also believe)
Or more appropriately, was He in the beginning eternally begotten?
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Eliyahu Member (Idle past 2260 days) Posts: 288 From: Judah Joined: |
I have a question for you, Eliyahu. Who is Jesus? Lets assume for a moment that you are correct and that there indeed is only One God.(Which I also believe) Bs'd Also you are overlooking the fact that not only is there one God, but that one God IS one. That is the foundation of the Jewish religion:
שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE. And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. Deut 6:4-9 The fact that God is one is so important that God commands this to be in the heart. It must be diligently taught to the children, the Jews must talk about it when they sit in their houses, when they walk upon the way, when they lie down and when they rise up. They must bind it as a sign upon their arm, and it must be frontlets between their eyes, and they must write it upon the doorposts of their houses and upon their gates. See Deuteronomy 6:4-9 The Jews until this day do this. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one.During the morning and evening prayers they recite this passage that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. So for the Jewish people there is one God, and that one God is one. One means one. That is not two, not three, not three in one, not two in one, but ONE:
Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one. Is Jesus more than a human? More than an angel? More than the first created thing? Was He in the beginning with the Father? Or more appropriately, was He in the beginning eternally begotten? No, he was not. He was just a human being, not a divine creature, because there is no God besides Y-H-W-H who is ONE. . . In the service of Y-H-W-H, Eliyahu, light unto the nations "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4 "All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5 . .
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Of course your quote is from the period when the Hebrews believed there were many gods, not one god.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Eliyahu Member (Idle past 2260 days) Posts: 288 From: Judah Joined: |
It's derived from scripture. Bs'd What that means is: There are theories, based on some Scriptural verses, that say that God must be a trinity. But the facts of life are: Theories come ten a penny. Just as like you can argue for a trinity, you can also argue for a duality, a quartet, or whatever. Or just one God who is one, as do the J-H-V-H witnesses. Clear Biblical teaching that says "God is three" or "God is a trinity", just doesn't exist. Clear Biblical teaching that says that "God is ONE" is all over the Bible. But that you ignore, in favor of your theories, which are worth their weight in gold. Eliyahu
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's derived from scripture.
Bs'd What that means is: There are theories, based on some Scriptural verses, that say that God must be a trinity. But the facts of life are: Theories come ten a penny. You are refusing to recognize the actual facts that SHOW the Trinity from scripture that I have supplied for your consideration, verses that say God is One, verses that say Messiah/Jesus has the attributes of God, verses that say the Holy Spirit has the attributes of God, verses that say that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit act independently of one another and are therefore separate Persons. This is not theory, these are simple facts that together SHOW that God exists in Three Persons while being One God. Address the facts given instead of just shooting off YOUR theories about what I've been saying.
Just as like you can argue for a trinity, you can also argue for a duality, a quartet, or whatever. That is in fact impossible from the actual scriptural facts which have been shown to you. The scripture shows that there are Three and only Three who all possess the attributes of God.
Or just one God who is one, as do the J-H-V-H witnesses. They blindly deny the evidence, just as you do.
Clear Biblical teaching that says "God is three" or "God is a trinity", just doesn't exist. Clear Biblical references that SHOW that God is three, a Trinity, have been shown to you.
Clear Biblical teaching that says that "God is ONE" is all over the Bible. Which is what gives you the excuse to ignore the proof that there are Three who share in the attributes of that One, as SHOWN in the scriptures.
But that you ignore, in favor of your theories, which are worth their weight in gold. Since "God is One" is the first affirmation in the proofs of the Trinity, you are here misrepresenting the argument to the point of lying about it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Eliyahu writes:
And there are theories that God must be "one". There's no more support for one theory than the other. It just depends on which Scriptures you cherry-pick.
There are theories, based on some Scriptural verses, that say that God must be a trinity. Eliyahu writes:
A quartet would account for the clover's stem.
Just as like you can argue for a trinity, you can also argue for a duality, a quartet, or whatever.
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Eliyahu Member (Idle past 2260 days) Posts: 288 From: Judah Joined: |
There are theories, based on some Scriptural verses, that say that God must be a trinity. And there are theories that God must be "one". There's no more support for one theory than the other. It just depends on which Scriptures you cherry-pick. Bs'd There is no Biblical verse which says that God is a trinity. Some deduce that by means of theories. "God is one" is not a theory, it is a straightforward Biblical teaching: "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4 "Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version" . . "And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version "Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version "Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible "Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version "Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version "Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version "Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accuratethat God is one" The Message "‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version . ."Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version "A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version "Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version "and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation . ."You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version "thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation "Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible. "*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation. "It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version "You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible "You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible . .So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE. . . "And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version "And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version "And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible . . In the service of Y-H-W-H, Eliyahu, light unto the nations "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4 "All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5 . .
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Eliyahu Member (Idle past 2260 days) Posts: 288 From: Judah Joined: |
Since "God is One" is the first affirmation in the proofs of the Trinity, Bs'd The above is of course the biggest nonsense anybody can dream up. The Biblical fact that God is ONE flies right into the face of the Christian theory that God is three. One is not the same as three. And three is not the same as one. "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." Isaiah 5:20 WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THREE ONE AND ONE THREE!!. . In the service of Y-H-W-H, Eliyahu, light unto the nations "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4 "All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5 . .
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Eliyahu writes:
It doesn't make any difference whether a theory is based on one verse or several.
There is no Biblical verse which says that God is a trinity. Some deduce that by means of theories. "God is one" is not a theory, it is a straightforward Biblical teaching:
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The Jehovahs Witnesses are a cult. Period. I should hope you don't associate with them, but if you do that would explain a lot.
Legalism. False Pride
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