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Author Topic:   The Electric Eel - more evidence against evolution
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 12 of 101 (704293)
08-08-2013 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Haldir
08-08-2013 8:06 AM


another rather typical misconception
Now, if I have my list right (and I certainly may not), the question then is whether or not these things needed to arise simultaneously, or if they could have been advantageous individually.
There is no requirement in the Theory of Evolution that any change be advantageous. Changes can be advantageous, neutral or disadvantageous but all three types of change can be passed on as long as the change is not so disadvantageous that it keeps the critter from living long enough to reproduce.
Evolution is NOT worse ---> better. Evolution is simply change of time.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Haldir, posted 08-08-2013 8:06 AM Haldir has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 9:43 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 14 of 101 (704297)
08-08-2013 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 9:43 AM


Re: another rather typical misconception
How does it make anything more or less likely and what part does more or less likely have to do with evolution anyway?
There was a list presented. There was a question of whether all the steps would be advantageous.
Advantageous is only relevant when it comes to filtering.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 9:43 AM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 10:24 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 101 (704300)
08-08-2013 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 10:24 AM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Again, traits can jess keep cummulating.
It is only when filtering comes into play that there is any significance and then ONLY when the trait is so detrimental that it keeps the critter from reproducing.
Well, if the evolution of a given trait is too unlikely, then you'll have to look for another explanation for the origin of that trait.
Uh, no. Why would I have to look for some other explanation?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 10:24 AM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 10:36 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 101 (704307)
08-08-2013 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 10:36 AM


Re: another rather typical misconception
If natural selection is out of the equation, then only traits that can be easily arrived at through a probable combination of mutations will "jess keep cummulating."
Utter bullshit.
Any changes that happen get passed on whether probable or not.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 10:36 AM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 12:34 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 101 (704310)
08-08-2013 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 12:34 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Nope.
But a change is a change. Something that happens, regardless of how unlikely, happened.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 12:34 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 12:52 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 101 (704312)
08-08-2013 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 12:52 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
More utter bullshit.
Of course I can say that because so far that is the only evidence supported method that has been presented.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 12:52 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 12:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 101 (704314)
08-08-2013 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 12:58 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
But so far no such too implausible to have happened scenario has been presented.
Improbable and unrealistic are not synonymous.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 12:58 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 1:24 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 101 (704317)
08-08-2013 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 1:24 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Yes, really.
What may seem unrealistic may seem very realistic when looking at things like evolution. When you factor in very long times and very large numbers of iterations even the most improbable becomes a near certainty.
Guided evolution no matter what funny face or fanciful costume it is dressed in is still simply totally and completely un-evidenced.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 1:24 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 1:34 PM jar has replied
 Message 46 by ramoss, posted 08-08-2013 3:31 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 101 (704320)
08-08-2013 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 1:34 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Improbable is still irrelevant.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 1:34 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 1:42 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 101 (704326)
08-08-2013 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 1:42 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Because there is evidence that it is not impossible and can be explained by the conventional theory and there is NO evidence of any designer or guider.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 1:42 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 2:00 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 39 of 101 (704329)
08-08-2013 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 2:00 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Perspective, like improbability, is fortunately irrelevant.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 2:00 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 3:07 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 64 of 101 (704369)
08-09-2013 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Genomicus
08-08-2013 11:09 PM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Actually, significantly more complex systems could only evolve if the changes were cumulative (meaning that the changes cumulatively added a selective advantage).
Nonsense.
Advantageous changes don't get selected; seriously disadvantageous changes that prevent reproduction get selected.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Genomicus, posted 08-08-2013 11:09 PM Genomicus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by NosyNed, posted 08-09-2013 9:28 AM jar has replied
 Message 66 by NoNukes, posted 08-09-2013 9:33 AM jar has replied
 Message 70 by Genomicus, posted 08-09-2013 9:45 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 68 of 101 (704374)
08-09-2013 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by NoNukes
08-09-2013 9:33 AM


Re: another rather typical misconception
Again, yes, some changes may give some critters an advantage BUT only in a very limited sense.
It is only when those critters in a population don't reproduce that a trait gets filter out.
Sexual selection is a good example.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by NoNukes, posted 08-09-2013 9:33 AM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Genomicus, posted 08-09-2013 9:49 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 101 (704375)
08-09-2013 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by NosyNed
08-09-2013 9:28 AM


Re: What is selected?
Yes, I should have been clearer.
See Message 68.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by NosyNed, posted 08-09-2013 9:28 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 71 of 101 (704377)
08-09-2013 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Genomicus
08-09-2013 9:45 AM


Re: another rather typical misconception
And I responded to them.
see Message 68.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Genomicus, posted 08-09-2013 9:45 AM Genomicus has not replied

  
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