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Author Topic:   If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 708 (704771)
08-16-2013 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Straggler
08-16-2013 12:53 PM


Re: A Question To Theists
What would the difference be betwen a world in whcih God is present and one in which God is now absent?
A world where GOD was absent would not exist.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Straggler, posted 08-16-2013 12:53 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 08-16-2013 3:18 PM jar has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 17 of 708 (704772)
08-16-2013 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
08-16-2013 3:13 PM


Re: A Question To Theists
Why couldn't GOD just kick it off and then let it run without any further involvement or even consideration on his part?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 08-16-2013 3:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 08-16-2013 3:33 PM Straggler has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 18 of 708 (704773)
08-16-2013 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Straggler
08-16-2013 3:18 PM


Re: A Question To Theists
A God might but GOD couldn't. Everything we know as this universe or reality is but a subset of GOD.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 08-16-2013 3:18 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Straggler, posted 08-16-2013 3:40 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 20 by onifre, posted 08-17-2013 4:00 AM jar has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 19 of 708 (704774)
08-16-2013 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
08-16-2013 3:33 PM


Re: A Question To Theists
Sounds like we are back to some sort of pantheism again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 08-16-2013 3:33 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 20 of 708 (704788)
08-17-2013 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
08-16-2013 3:33 PM


Re: A Question To Theists
Everything we know as this universe or reality is but a subset of GOD.
You couldn't possibly know that. I mean, what evidence is there for that?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 08-16-2013 3:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 08-17-2013 8:04 AM onifre has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 708 (704790)
08-17-2013 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by onifre
08-17-2013 4:00 AM


Re: A Question To Theists
Of course I can't know that, it is my belief.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by onifre, posted 08-17-2013 4:00 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by onifre, posted 08-17-2013 3:47 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 22 of 708 (704794)
08-17-2013 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
08-17-2013 8:04 AM


Re: A Question To Theists
it is my belief.
Oh, ok. Because you wrote that as a very matter of fact point you were trying to make.
- Oni

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 Message 21 by jar, posted 08-17-2013 8:04 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2933 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 23 of 708 (704937)
08-20-2013 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
08-13-2013 9:13 AM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
straggler writes:
I don't think I have previously been confronted with the idea that every breath we take requires god's involvement and that an absence of intervention at any moment in time would equate to the end of existence.
Is this sort of ultra-intervention idea common amongst theists?
How much intervening does god do?
Is any intervening necessary at all?
How would we define or determine God "doing nothing" as opposed to God doing something?
The Roman Catholic church teaches that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
That God's providence provides for us. So yes God does act in and control each life.
In his book "Thoughts in Solitude" Thomas Merton writes at page 45 when discussing the spiritual life;
"It is the silence of our whole being in compunction and adoration before God in the habitual realization that He is everything and we are nothing, that He is the Center to which all things tend, and to Whom all our actions must be directed. That our life and strength proceed from Him, that both in life and in death we depend entirely on Him, that the whole course of our life is foreknown by Him and falls into the plan of His wise and merciful Providence;..."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 08-13-2013 9:13 AM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 5:44 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2013 6:02 PM shadow71 has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 24 of 708 (704939)
08-20-2013 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by shadow71
08-20-2013 5:30 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
So yes God does act in and control each life.
God controlling each life eliminates that whole "free will" thing.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by shadow71, posted 08-20-2013 5:30 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by shadow71, posted 08-20-2013 8:18 PM DrJones* has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(6)
Message 25 of 708 (704941)
08-20-2013 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by shadow71
08-20-2013 5:30 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
Shadow71 writes:
In his book "Thoughts in Solitude" Thomas Merton writes at page 45 when discussing the spiritual life;
"It is the silence of our whole being in compunction and adoration before God in the habitual realization that He is everything and we are nothing, that He is the Center to which all things tend, and to Whom all our actions must be directed. That our life and strength proceed from Him, that both in life and in death we depend entirely on Him, that the whole course of our life is foreknown by Him and falls into the plan of His wise and merciful Providence;..."
And in his book "Thoughts on Peculiar Religious Drivel" Tangle writes on page 1, "what Thomas Merton says is all bollox".
So the situation is finely balanced.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by shadow71, posted 08-20-2013 5:30 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by shadow71, posted 08-20-2013 8:21 PM Tangle has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2933 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 26 of 708 (704955)
08-20-2013 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by DrJones*
08-20-2013 5:44 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
DrJones writes:
God controlling each life eliminates that whole "free will" thing
That is an interesting point. Could it be that we can reject God's will by the use of our free will?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 5:44 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 8:35 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 29 by NoNukes, posted 08-20-2013 9:19 PM shadow71 has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2933 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 27 of 708 (704956)
08-20-2013 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tangle
08-20-2013 6:02 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
tangle writes:
And in his book "Thoughts on Peculiar Religious Drivel" Tangle writes on page 1, "what Thomas Merton says is all bollox".
So the situation is finely balanced.
Would like to read that book. Have you ever read Merton?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2013 6:02 PM Tangle has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 28 of 708 (704957)
08-20-2013 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by shadow71
08-20-2013 8:18 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
That is an interesting point. Could it be that we can reject God's will by the use of our free will?
Kind of makes him pretty weak if us mere mortals can override his will.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by shadow71, posted 08-20-2013 8:18 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by shadow71, posted 08-21-2013 8:17 PM DrJones* has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 708 (704959)
08-20-2013 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by shadow71
08-20-2013 8:18 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
Could it be that we can reject God's will by the use of our free will?
No. It is God's will that you have choices.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by shadow71, posted 08-20-2013 8:18 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by shadow71, posted 08-21-2013 8:21 PM NoNukes has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2933 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 30 of 708 (705004)
08-21-2013 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by DrJones*
08-20-2013 8:35 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
DrJones writes:
Kind of makes him pretty weak if us mere mortals can override his will.
Not if that is the way, in his love, he created mortals. Giving them the free will to accept him or to reject him.
Of course the consequences are quite devastating, but, humanity seems unwilling to accept God. Hubris.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 8:35 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by DrJones*, posted 08-21-2013 8:35 PM shadow71 has replied

  
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