Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 59 (9025 total)
58 online now:
AZPaul3, JonF, LamarkNewAge, nwr, Tangle, xongsmith (6 members, 52 visitors)
Newest Member: JustTheFacts
Post Volume: Total: 883,358 Year: 1,004/14,102 Month: 407/597 Week: 17/168 Day: 17/23 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3933
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 181 of 1960 (671477)
08-25-2012 8:37 PM


A lot of OFF-TOPIC happening
I've off-topic bannered a bunch of messages. That does not mean that the un-bannered messages are necessarily on-topic.

People, please - Topic theme awareness.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

  
NicolaRedd
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 2
Joined: 08-20-2013


Message 182 of 1960 (704951)
08-20-2013 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by extent
05-04-2010 7:22 PM


RE Creationism taught in schools
Thank you for this important post. I totally agree with you. Religion is a dangerous means to mind control people and particular children. The subject religions on planet Earth would be a teaching subject to teach but only to kids older than 16 so that they can learn all about the different religions, what they stand for, all of their values, how the religion evolved and why, what it does to people psychologically, what people gained from it, who gained from it and why, what were and (or) are the negative aspects of any particular religion and so on. Children under 16 are way too receptive for all kinds of craziness and as the Catholic church said it "when you have a child from 7 you have him for life". This needs to be avoided particularly in a country which is already struggling with world image and world market competitiveness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by extent, posted 05-04-2010 7:22 PM extent has not yet responded

  
Maezeppa
Junior Member (Idle past 2374 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 05-31-2014


(1)
Message 183 of 1960 (728682)
06-01-2014 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by extent
05-04-2010 7:22 PM


School is for Facts
The plain answer is, "don't even try". It would be a tremendous disservice to students and a waste of valuable resources if schools were to entertain the idea of teaching religion alongside evolution. Creationism (which flavor?) is absolutely not a legitimate 'alternative' to well-understood and highly reliable science.

Evolution is a matter of scientific fact. Some religious people are able to reconcile their religious belief and science and some cannot. Fortunately, it is illegal to teach religious dogma in public schools and creationism is religious dogma.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by extent, posted 05-04-2010 7:22 PM extent has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2014 2:26 AM Maezeppa has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 184 of 1960 (728706)
06-02-2014 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Maezeppa
06-01-2014 2:46 PM


Re: School is for Facts
Hi, Maezeppa, welcome to EvC.

You are most correct. School science classes are for teaching science. I, personally, do not see any reason for having any religious classes in school. This, to me, detracts away from the training/teaching/learning a secular public school needs to provide for the student to fit and succeed in this culture. Home and church can provide any religious training necessary, though I don't believe any such training is good for the human species considering the problems we face with where we are and where we're going.

At the top of the screen under the banner there is a command bar. If you hit "All Topics" you will see a list of all the most recent topics with the latest and greatest messages for the present on-going discussions. Come on over and join in.

Again, welcome to EvC

Edited by AZPaul3, : spl'n as usual.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Maezeppa, posted 06-01-2014 2:46 PM Maezeppa has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by NoNukes, posted 06-04-2014 12:12 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 186 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-04-2014 1:11 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 1960 (728879)
06-04-2014 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by AZPaul3
06-02-2014 2:26 AM


Re: School is for Facts
I, personally, do not see any reason for having any religious classes in school.

I see some good in it. I suggest that studying religion is at least as beneficial as studying any historical subject. In fact I believe it would be a great idea to provide some instruction in both the Koran and the Bible, because doing so might aid in understanding your neighbor. Certainly other religions should be included.

For what it's worth, I remember spending a good deal of time discussing mythology in 8th grade English. That stuff was all part of someone's religion. What if we had spent time comparing origin stories. How long would that rlast before the fundies got in an uproar.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2014 2:26 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 186 of 1960 (728883)
06-04-2014 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by AZPaul3
06-02-2014 2:26 AM


Re: School is for Facts
I, personally, do not see any reason for having any religious classes in school.

Maybe I'm not realizing what you mean by a "religion" class, but I have a one-word rebuttal for you: Anthropology.

I mean, you did italicize "any".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2014 2:26 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2014 3:23 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 892 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 187 of 1960 (728884)
06-04-2014 1:12 AM


There is quite a difference between studying comparative religions, which is often done in Anthropology, and the type of religion which fundamentalists want taught in school (i.e., indoctrination favoring only their particular brand of religion).

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 188 of 1960 (728904)
06-04-2014 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by New Cat's Eye
06-04-2014 1:11 AM


Re: School is for Facts
I have a one-word rebuttal for you: Anthropology.

Ya got me. I surrender.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-04-2014 1:11 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-04-2014 12:28 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 189 of 1960 (728920)
06-04-2014 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by AZPaul3
06-04-2014 3:23 AM


Re: School is for Facts
I'm just bouncing off your post, but I just noticed the subtitle.

School is for Facts

I have to object to that one.

I remember reading some stupid poetry in English class and the teacher is all: "What does it mean to you?" And I'm all: "I don't know, something a frog and a bug and a flower, its pretty dumb." And she goes: "No, it metaphorical, there's a deeper meaning there, what is it?" Again i go: "Beats the hell out of me, all I see them talking about is plants and animals."

"Can't I go back to the chemistry lab? I prefer to learn about facts, mam."

"Fine, yes I'll go to the principal's office."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2014 3:23 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by AZPaul3, posted 06-05-2014 3:55 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 190 of 1960 (729079)
06-05-2014 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by New Cat's Eye
06-04-2014 12:28 PM


Re: School is for Facts
I remember reading some ****** poetry in English class and the teacher is all: "What does it mean to you?"

In my English class we digested Paul Simon's "I am a rock" and Paul McCartney's "Eleanor Rigby."

So my point remains since the "fact" is, CS, you went to the wrong school.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-04-2014 12:28 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-05-2014 4:20 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 1960 (729097)
06-05-2014 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by AZPaul3
06-05-2014 3:55 PM


Re: School is for Facts
So my point remains since the "fact" is, CS, you went to the wrong school.

I only had two options, and the Catholic high school was waaay better than the public option.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by AZPaul3, posted 06-05-2014 3:55 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19957
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 192 of 1960 (729234)
06-07-2014 7:58 AM


Teaching Academics vs. Teaching Religion
Teaching Academics:

Protestants believe the way to heaven is through deeds.

Teaching Religion:

Only through deeds can you get to heaven.

--Percy


  
mram10
Member (Idle past 2288 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 193 of 1960 (733339)
07-16-2014 12:11 PM


Let's define religion:
re·li·gion
noun \ri-ˈli-jən\

: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

Let's focus on the last definition. Teaching evolution is, in my opinion, teaching religion. As for ID or creationism, if it has a valid description of origins, then people should be made aware of the differing theories.

Common sense question:
Which is the safer teaching?
1. You are a chemical/biological accident. Upon death you will decompose and cease to exist as an individual.
2. You are a created for a purpose, held accountable for everything you do, etc.

Edited by mram10, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Coyote, posted 07-16-2014 12:29 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 195 by ringo, posted 07-16-2014 12:46 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 196 by DrJones*, posted 07-16-2014 1:13 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 197 by Stile, posted 07-16-2014 2:12 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 198 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-16-2014 2:58 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 199 by RAZD, posted 07-16-2014 4:17 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 200 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-16-2014 9:18 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 231 by dwise1, posted 07-19-2014 1:44 AM mram10 has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 892 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 194 of 1960 (733343)
07-16-2014 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by mram10
07-16-2014 12:11 PM


Teaching evolution is, in my opinion, teaching religion.

Your opinion is wrong.

As for ID or creationism, if it has a valid description of origins, then people should be made aware of the differing theories.

It does not have a valid description of origins. Its description is contradicted by the evidence.

And please, do not use the term "theory" to describe ID. It is not a theory, but a religious belief trying (unsuccessfully) to masquerade as science.

Common sense question:
Which is the safer teaching?
1. You are a chemical/biological accident. Upon death you will decompose and cease to exist as an individual.
2. You are a created for a purpose, held accountable for everything you do, etc.

But which alternative has evidence to support it? Certainly not the second one.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by mram10, posted 07-16-2014 12:11 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18865
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 195 of 1960 (733346)
07-16-2014 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by mram10
07-16-2014 12:11 PM


mram10 writes:

As for ID or creationism, if it has a valid description of origins, then people should be made aware of the differing theories.


By all means, let's teach ID and/or creationism as failed hypotheses, just like we teach alchemy and astrology as failed hypotheses. A theory is basically what you have left after you throw out all of the failed hypotheses. ID and creationism have failed every test, so all we have left is evolution, which has passed every test.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by mram10, posted 07-16-2014 12:11 PM mram10 has acknowledged this reply

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021