Summations Only

I believe the evidence for a worldwide flood is at the P-T boundary. Please refer to the following link where I laid out some of my evidence for a worldwide flood:
EvC Forum: Where Did The (Great Flood) Water Come From And Where Did It Go?I have a lot more evidence than that, but kindly deal with the link first, and following that I can give you further evidence for a flood then. It has been refuted. Shoshenk is not Shishak. Just like modern times, various countries had their own enemies and alliances. Shoshenk specifically attacked a series of towns that are all in a list and all existed in Israel. Jerusalem was the major city in the entire area at the time and yet was not on that list of conquered towns. The biblical Shishak however attacked a series of towns that existed only in Judah and not in Israel. These are two different Pharaohs. Ramses however did attack Jerusalem and is a better candidate for the biblical Shishak, he is the only Pharaoh in Egypt ever associated with an attack on Jerusalem. This is recorded on a tower near Karnak, which was built by Ramses. Sorry I'm not following your logic here. I pointed out that the first signs of human occupation are in Turkey. The first recorded settlements. This fits in with the bible's flood account.

True, it is a topic for another thread. the only reason i brought it up was in response to your comment that the flood story "HAS been investigated and found to be untrue." That comment I felt was worthy of some sort of defense of my position that in fact there is evidence of a worldwide flood. Yes the conquest list was not complete, but it does show the towns of Israel in a sequence, and the damaged regions of the list fit in with the missing Megiddo, but do not fit in with an attack on Judah or Jerusalem. Megiddo was an Israeli town, Jerusalem was a Judah town. There is no sign that Shoshenk attacked Judah, and every sign that Ramses attacked Judah and Jerusalem. If the one pharoah fits perfectly and the other does not, why choose the one that does not??And if Ramses is Shishak, suddenly the bible archaeology makes sense, and even letters between Palestine and Egypt confirm biblical stories. Semitic settlements in Egypt then confirm the Jewish exile. Israel/Judah are confirmed as late bronze age kingdoms. The wealth of Jerusalem according to the bible then matches the wealth of late bronze age Jerusalem. The conquest matches the fall of bronze age Palestinian cities. ie it ALL falls into place.By the way , the link you provided refuting Rohl is based mainly on strawman arguments from a layman. I've got the book, Rohl is a qualified Egyptologist.
http://plagueofmice.anarchic-teapot.net/...il-a-test-of-timeThe reason i mentioned Rohl, is that the bible is a true record of human history, not a book of myths. This is relevant to this thread. Rohl reveals this link between history and the bible. I personally have been fascinated with that ancient Turkey temple complex, the first human buildings of history and i felt that was relevant. But when you mentioned human occupation I then looked that up as well, and discovered it was also in Turkey, both the first cave dwellings and the first towns. Rather than misdirection I felt I had a good point initially, and then followed it up with even better points. Oh well.....Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.

I really appreciate that, and have looked at that thread and am planning to participate. Unfortunately time constraints limit me in the meantime.

Been there, done that: It seems people like unnecessary detail and so only Percy was bothering with attempting alternative explanations for the proven huge sediment movements of the P-T boundary. Others seemed to miss the geological points I was making. Here is my summation in one thread (post 502)
EvC Forum: Flood Geology: A Thread For PortilloAnd please see post 295 in this thread:
EvC Forum: Where Did The (Great Flood) Water Come From And Where Did It Go? Ramses II attacked Jerusalem. Yes many Hebrews, even King David, were nomads , no problem there. The Armana letters describe Labaya, he fits in with the biblical Saul. And the "Habiru" tribes are describing the Hebrews.The Hyskos arrived in Egypt after the Israelites had left. You seem to be missing my point. My point is that language, large towns, architecture, first settlments all started in Turkey:
Catalhoyuk: Urban Life in Neolithic Anatolia
A Turkish origin for Indo-European languages | Nature
Language tree rooted in Turkey | Nature
Gobekli Tepe: The World’s First Temple? | History| Smithsonian Magazine
http://www.anatolianfestival.org/...s/birth-of-civilizationsThe bible says Nimrod started the following towns: Erech, Babel, Calneh, Akkad. Erech and Babel have been discovered, Akkad is repeatedly referred to in ancient documents. Calneh is still to be discovered.Early history of mankind fits the bible.

True hey. Do you feel its impossible for animals to survive if you release them off a boat into the wilds? Which ones that we see today could not survive that event? Name one that would have battled to survive?

Message 3 (Mr Jack) states: TO: Jar, Mr Jack, Tangle, Catholic Scientist, Ringo, CoyoteI understand that you guys don't read the bible, the story can be found in Genesis 8. Its clear in the biblical account that the earth dried up for 5 months. The animals were only released when the land was dry. Vegetation had been gaining a foothold for some time by then.For this discussion to get more scientific you would require proof that its impossible for sufficient vegetation to gain a foothold after a 7 month flood. I need some proof instead of speculation. Remember this is a small number of animals released into a large landscape.You would also need sufficient proof of a significant number of predators, I do not see the predator/herbivore ratio as very high at all, especially since some animals had 14 representatives, and some only had 2. And with drying lakes of water where the oceans receded , fresh fish would be in abundance for a while as large lakes dried up, and would be easier prey initially for those carnivores who could handle that diet.

True, which refutes Mr Jacks argument that Noah released the animals BEFORE the land was dry enough to do it.
The book says after 5 months of land showing, he released the animals. (from the first of the 10th month until the 27th of the 2nd month) Its was 54 days after the first land was exposed, that the olive tree sprouted. Seeds can last many months of waterlogging and still survive. They only had to last 5 months, because until then the earth was being covered with water, or the waters were receding. Mountaintops were then only covered for 150 days. The Genesis story says that the waters only prevailed for 150 days (Genesis 7:24).Salt is only thick on soil when there is evaporation, this was a marine transgression followed soon after by a marine regression. Salted soil needs a freshwater rinsing of the topsoil and then compost for rapid restoration. Rainfalls and rotting plant debris could have done so in the 47 days following the flood, allowing those first plants to take hold. With all that natural compost it was perfect for plant growth that could have rooted in the debris at first and not even in the soil.Many plants do not need an ecosystem, just soil, water and light.

And if there were 2 cats and 14 mice, 14 rats, 14 moles, 14 deer, 14 moose, 14 springbok, 14 wildebees, 14 giraffes, 14 wild boar, 14 cattle, 14 pigs, 14 rabbits, 14 koala bears, 14 ostriches?And 2 dogs and 14 elephants, 14 buffalo, 14 camels, 14 sheep, 14 goats, 14 hamsters, 14 lizards, 14 frogs, 14 zebra, 14 dodos, 14 mammoths?Plus many stranded fish.There are so many possible scenarios that the argument that animals could not survive the disembarking of the ark is a very unrealistic stance.

This is a very confident assertion that land that has been drained of seawater is poisoned for longer than 5 months. Where is your science to back that up? This is a science forum, not speculation. It was an olive leaf, not an olive tree. See verse 11 in post 186

On what basis? This sounds like pure speculation, you need some facts to back this up. You need to prove the following:1) Seeds cannot survive 5 months in water
2) Salt water poisons land beyond recovery in 5 months, even after rainfall and rotting vegetation have covered the soil.
3) Plants cannot grow from the rotting vegetation that would have been abundant after the flood.

Apologies for the assumption.No need for your bad language and personal attack.

Sorry for the assumption. Thanks for your explanation. The exodus and conquest of Canaan have archaeology to back it up. Rohl's revised chronology makes a strong case for this, even though he is an agnostic and had no motivation for bias in his research. He has a degree in Egyptology. The bible's claims of early civilization migrating from Turkey to Sumeria to Babylon are also backed by archaeology.

This is pure speculation. Neither of us know which animals were regarded as clean and which were unclean, and also neither of us know the proportion of predators to prey that would have been on the ark.

Anyone who makes an assertion should back it up. This particular thread is full of assertions regarding the impossibility of the animals surviving. If people want to make assertions in a scientific forum, provide some evidence. It has been done. George Howe did it over 140 days. Many seeds survived.Many plants have seeds that specifically survive water, and there could also have been speciation of those plants since. Many plants also specifically thrive in saline water, so there is no reason to doubt plant life soon after a world flood.

This is a science forum. Please provide evidence. I have. I'm not sure why you are associating the Armana letters with Merneptah? They are associated with Akhanatem, about 140 years before Merneptah. So I am not claiming David was a contemporary of Merneptah at all. And not only did Rameses II attack Jerusalem, his chronology fits in with the the biblical date of the Jerusalem attack. The new chronology is not based only the Shishak/Rameses association, but with earlier adjustments to the historical timeline which then place Rameses at the time of the Jerusalem attack. The earlier Apiru settlements , traditionally in Egypt until about 1750 BC. After they left the Hyskos settled in the region. The bible describes human migration from Mt Ararat, to Sumeria, then to Babylon, and then spreading around the world.