Summations Only

Why so shy all of a sudden?If God started the the process it was a miracle.
If he didn't, it's either a natural flood or it's not true.Which is it?

This has to be the craziest thing I've heard you say - despite heavy competition.I'll try again but it would be good if you didn't fire from the hip with your answer because it matters.God told Noah a year in advance that he would flood the earth. He told him to build an ark for the animals he would save. Before the flood he told Noah to gather the animals because he was going to flood the earth. So god says what he's going to do - "I will cause it to rain on the earth..." then he does it. What he does is flood the earth to 15 cubits higher than the highest mountain.Now I don't know how that can be anything other than a miracle.I'm not talking about the flood part - although I contend that the flooding the earth above mountain high would also require a miracle - I'm talking about god saying he'll intervene with the climate and geology of the earth in order to cause the global flood.Can you therefore explain to me what other 'detail' you need an/or what other possible explanation are there other than:1. It never happened
2. It was a natural disaster, God had nothing to do with it.Note that both 1 & 2 require you to admit that the biblical story of the flood is wrong.

What a pile of equivocating cobblers. You're just trolling. This is the mechanical translation of the Hebrew:כִׁי לְּיָּמִׁים עוֹד שִׁבְּעָּה אָנֹכִׁי מַמְּטִׁיר עַל הָּאָרֶץ אַרְּבָּעִׁים יוֹם 7:4
וְּאַרְּבָּעִׁים לָּיְּלָּה וּמָּחִׁיתִׁי אֶת כָּל הַיְּקוּם אֲשֶר עָּשִׁׂיתִׁי מֵעַל פְּנֵי
הָּאֲדָּמָּהGiven.that to~ Day~ s Yet.again Seven
I make~ Precipitate~ ing(ms) Upon the~
Land Four~ s Day and~ Four~ s Night
and~ i~ did~ Wipe.away At All the~
Substance Which i~ did~ Do from~
Upon Face~ s the~ GroundWhich is:given that for yet again seven days I
will make a precipitating upon the
land forty days and forty nights and
I will wipe away all of the
substance I made from upon the
face of the ground,It couldn't possibly be clearer - God did it. Why are you trying to wriggle away from it? Do you not believe the bible mindspawn?http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/bookstore/e-books/mtg.pdf

Yes, it seems I have to. Also logic lessons. And biology and physics and geology. It seems that your intellectual cupboard is bare.You are wriggling and squirming your way all around a very simple issue but one that is absolutely at the core of whatever weird argument you are trying to make. Obfuscation and evasion seems to be your methodology.It's just making you look ridiculous.If you can't even say that God caused the flood, given the text and the entire Christian and Jewish interpretation of it, there's no point discussing anything at all with you.You are indeed a troll.

It is not my way. I have provided direct quotes from the King James Bible and a mechanical translation from the Hebrew along with it's interpretation.It's a commonplace that God caused the flood. You have come up with no sane objection to this overwhelmingly accepted veiw.You are arguing disingenuously and I have no more comments to make on it. Grow up.

I've filled a whole basket with cherries below.There are many more trees to be found here,Genesis 7 AKJV - And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou - Bible Gatewayperhaps you can find a passage that that doesn't say that God/The Lord/YWHY caused the flood?Good luck with that.Genesis 7
New International Version (NIV)
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.American Standard Version (ASV)
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the ground.Contemporary English Version (CEV)
4 Seven days from now I will send rain that will last for forty days and nights, and I will destroy all other living creatures I have made.Good News Translation (GNT)
4 Seven days from now I am going to send rain that will fall for forty days and nights, in order to destroy all the living beings that I have made.Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
4 For shivah yamim from now, and I will cause it to rain upon ha’aretz arba’im yom and arba’im lailah; and every living creature that I have made will I wipe out from off the p’nei ha’adamah.Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
4 For in seven days I will send rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
4 for after other seven days I am sending rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and have wiped away all the substance that I have made from off the face of the ground.'Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
4 For yet a while, and after seven days, I will rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will destroy every substance that I have made, from the face of the earth.

I accept your cherries.Both quotes has god saying he will/shall rain on the earth for 40 days and forty nights. God has therefore intervened with nature to cause a flood and he has predicted when it was to happen.Additionally, he gives Noah a year's warning of the fact so that he can build a boat and tells us why he's doing it.Without a shadow of a doubt, no matter what translation you pick, God did it. And God intervening with weather on the earth is a miracle.

There were no fish - they all died when the salinity changed, their habitat was destroyed and their food supply disappeared. Those, that is, that weren't simply killed by the turbulence caused by a catastrophically violent global flood that rose to 15 cubits higher than the highest mountain in just 40 days.If, by some miracle, any fish survived, they did so by finding the rivers lakes, seas and oceans as the floods retreated (to where?). They did not just flap about on open ground miraculously close to where the ark was perched and stay there, miraculously un-rotten, until a carnivore that miraculously can eat it arrives. There was no growing vegetation. all soft seeds of the type that grow into the grass that cows eat, were drowned and rotted in a couple of weeks of the flood starting. Any miraculous survivors would not germinate in the salt laden mud that replaced the topsoil which was blasted away in the flood. No it doesn't. This is the time line described by the bible which I posted before and you ignored: and you can see the relevant verses and the calculations here:http://home.earthlink.net/~arktracker/ark/Timeline.htmlNoah left the ark 57 days after he looked out and saw that the land was drying. Not dry, drying. He actually only left when it was dry. Sodden ground does not grow seeds, it rots them.Edited by Tangle, : spelling

You didn't post a study, you gave a link to an abstract - the actual paper has to be purchased. Did you purchase it and examine it in detail or did you just google until you found a nice red cherry?The abstract says that 13 species were tested at hypo-osmotic dilutions of 10, 5 and 2% for longer than 2 weeks. The tentative conclusion is this: So, in your opinion, what % salinity are we dealing with here?And how are these fish going to deal with the destruction of both their habitat and their food supply. I love that link, not only is it broken, it's about beans. Cows and other grazers don't eat beans, they eat grass and grass seeds rot when wet. I know this because I've let grass seeds get wet and they rot and die within weeks. Not hilltops, mountains. And how many cows, antelopes and pigs do you find on mountains?Next time you're in the bath and you pull the plug out, I suggest you don't stay in there and immediately put your clothes on because I'm guessing that it'll take a while for the water to drain out fully. (Then a while more to be properly dry.) Mountain tops. Yes, the dove with the impossible leaf. The dove that brought a fully identifyable olive tree leaf back only a few days after land became a possibility. Mountain tops.This is the ark that has perched on the top of Mount Ararat. A mountain that is over 5 thousand meters tall. That would be MOUNTAINS.Noah let the animals out of the ark as soon as the ground was dry enough for them. That's what the story says. You see? The surface of the ground was dry - remember, he's perched on top of a MOUNTAIN. So he had to wait a few more days. The ground is, of course still salty and there are no seeds left to grow.You really don't care what you say do you?

Ok boss, I admire your tenacity and dedication to fair debate.But......in order to discuss how far they went, we have to consider their food supply. And I reckon that for the carnivores it was whatever was able to walk out of the ark. And, for any herbivores that survived their shipmates, the food was non-existant.So until we can establish how anything eat, I can't see us making much progress. Do we simply accept a plentiful and globally distributed food supply as well?

This would be the Hill Ararat then I suppose. Do cows like snow? I really hope so. Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

I think it's a corollary of mountains being the size of hills then - obviously one is linked to the other. (We know this because Noah refers to Hill Ararat.)And naturally, micro-organisms would be the size of atoms - but sadly we've lost the ones with nostrils as they were killed in the flud.

Here's a little experiment you can perform with your children:Science Project: How Does Salt Affect Seed Germination?Science Project: How Does Salt Affect Seed Germination? - OwlcationBut just in case you can't be arsed to do it, here's the results: Raddish seeds aren't of course ALL seeds. But I'm willing to bet my house that you'd get the same result from grass seeds - grass, as you may know is what cows, camels, deer, rabbits, horses etc eat.But salt is the least of your problems. what would you expect the result to be of covering our grass seeds with several thousand feet of brackish water to be for over a year?Then we have the problem that in order to grow at all the seeds need to be at the correct depth in the soil. Grass seeds must be either on or no more than a few millimetres below the soil if they are to germinate.Now we have the problem that all the top soil has been stripped away and has been replaced by sediments. Very wet sediments.Where are your seeds? Any that floated sank after water logging and rotted along with all other vegetable matter. If any survived this, they're buried below the sediment. Any that aren't buried and/or rotted have to grow in saline conditions. Not only that, they have to grow quick enough and in quantities large enough to feed a quantity of herbivores.No chance. Do you really need proof that carnivores eat other animals?(Reminder: this is the guy that claims that mountains are hills and that the flood didn't require a miracle. Possibly a double standard here?)

You sure did. Sadly cows, camels, antelope etc etc eat grass not beans. You don't have a year, you have a few days. But you didn't explain how an olive tree could grow in a few days. You did not show how grass seeds can survive a year under several thousand feet of salt water, then germinate in mud meters thick. Right, so now we have a few birds eating the grass seed and flying around shitting.The thing about birds eating grass seeds is that they digest them. That's what they live off. Seeds that are distributed by birds are from soft fruit where the birds feed off the outer coat and shit the hard pips.Sorry wrong seeds again. Yup, that's right, FRUIT. TREES. Yup, Fruits and nuts.And how long do you imagine this process takes? Your birds and animals are let loose into the world and immediately start shitting, how long before the fruit trees take to grow in this salty mud? They have about 2 weeks before they starve - is this where we get the miracle? Right. If you were on the ark...... pfnrrrrrrSadly, the birds digest grass seeds. But if they didn't, you'd need thousands of them to distribute your seeds. Apart from our doves, the birds were released with all the other animals so even if they shat a mountain of seeds and even if the seeds grew in salt laden mud, the herbivores all died of starvation before they could grow. (Those few that survived the carnivores that is.) HahahahaHere's an interesting fact for you to chew on and make something up about: Good luck growing that from bird droppings.

Cows, sheep, camels, deer eat GRASS.Not sea beans, not roots, not olive trees.They need about a acre of this stuff per cow: Cattle do not live in mountains, they live on the plains.It would take many years of uninterrupted growth to repopulate a field of grass from individual seed - even in ideal conditions - with a truck load of fresh grass seed in well drained, un-salted, top solid.I'm done here.