Message 301 of 301 (706496)
09-12-2013 3:11 PM
A All Powerful All Knowing All Loving Creator God Does Exist
Greetings all! I will attempt to show, once again, the ideology that a all powerful all knowing all loving creator god does exist.
FYI: From here on out I will just refer to the "all powerful all knowing all loving creator god" as "god" except in a couple to few cases.Model
God does exist and does things according to god's will. ALSO keep in mind that god's ways are above our ways and god's thoughts are above our thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9 NASB
"8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts."
Thus anytime we don't understand something we need to ask god about it. Answers come in time via revelation. Revelations are not mere coincidences (they can be), typically they are extremely odd 1/1,000,000,000 coincidences (math just an example not exact in order to portray concept).
EVIL: WRT this thought, arguments are merely questions. If we want to know why "evil exists" we need to ask "god" instead of claiming "god does not exist because evil exists" w/o evidence. Evil existing is evidence that "evil exists" not evidence that "god does not exist/does exist". Claiming god does not exist/does exist due to evil is like claiming atheism/theism by understanding the theory of evolution (If I used evil existing as a reason for god to exist in prev post please forgive me that was a mistake). There is no scientific theory that quantifies to god does/does not exist just like evil existing does not quantify to god does/does not exist. Thus evil existing quantifies to evil existing (other thoughts are based on presumptions). Here is a verse where god is permitting evil (sin) due to free agency (a loving cause) in the Bible. Hence apparently evil (sin) existing within gods created reality is permitted (probably to test humanity and what they will do with free agency) but also so is a judgement for evil (sin) thus why repenting is important. Isaiah 55:7 NASB
"7 Let the wicked forsake his way
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
And let him return to the Lord,
And He will have compassion on him,
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon."
And if we follow the bible the cost of sin is death, so I presume those that are sinful will be blotted out from existence and not given a chance to live eternally if they don't change their ways and repent.Romans 6:23 NIV
"23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
God does things god's way (Shroud of turin dated to time of Jesus).
I just want to remind you that in the above model it is important to understand that there are things we can't know/understand regarding god (as mentioned). We can only understand what god has shown us in scripture (IMO) and what science has revealed regarding matter (IMO). Hence why I use this model below (unpeeling the onion or rather gods mind in this instance). There is a breadth of knowledge (scripture) god has shared with humanity but I doubt it is in full depth of god's knowledge.
Gods Existence: One great question or issue being claimed here by Stile is that evil can't exist if god does exist. I argue that that is a mere opinion (as shown above) and is not biblical. IF we are to discuss god IMO we should refer to scripture. Also further Stile's opinion assumes that our understanding of all things including power, love, knowledge and the future are either higher (within the ideology that god must not exist due to evil) or equal to god's understanding of those things. I have shown that evil existing does not mean god does not exist which quantifies to Stile's opinion as moot on this topic. If god exists then god decides not humanity on how things will play out, but also as to what is what (love, power, knowledge, the future etc) since we're learning (even if you presume atheism humanity is young and still learning). I argue that god does exist and if Stile can claim that because "evil exists" god does not exist that the reality is that we simply don't understand those concepts (love, power, knowledge, the future) the same way that god understands those concepts. I personally completely level with Stile on child rape, it is terrible. However it does not quantify to god not existing because god is not responding to it the way we wish god to respond to it.
God's Power/Knowledge/Love: It has been argued here, and probably elsewhere, that because god does not interfere with evil the way we want god to interfere with evil that god must not be a all powerful, and/or a all knowing, and/or a all loving creator god. I argue that this is a mere claim. God can choose what it does in the same way people will respond to things the way they do. Except the only reason (that is logical if god does exist) god would choose not to respond to evil or interfere with evil the way we want god to interfere with evil is because it has a plan and is sticking to that plan hence gods ways. ALSO this plan I speak of is not limiting to god at all (within the thought that something exists that god can't overpower and what god can do is different than what god "wills" to do). It does not mean that because god created a plan (all knowing) that god is not powerful enough to stop evil (as per your claim) because god created the plan (all knowing) and can break the plan (all powerful) if it wanted (all knowing) to break the plan as per god's thoughts (all knowing). Evil existing does not not mean that god is not all loving because again god has created a plan (all loving) and is sticking to that plan (all knowing) hence judgement (all powerful) and abolishment of evil (all powerful). FYI: if you are about to argue well god is showing his knowledge in this spot of the plan but not showing his love/and or power in this part of the plan, please keep in mind that that issue or rather question would fall back on the idea that you are claiming you don't like something that god is permitting due to gods plan. Thus if you have questions about gods plan that I am not answering ask god. The answers I've gotten is sufficient; god is all knowing thus god knows the future and the best ways of abolishing evil in the long run. It is apparent that humanity can't stop evil, no matter what perspective you have whether atheist or theist. We want evil blotted out not managed. FYI: free agency must be included in all ideas/thoughts because this too god feels is extremely important apparently thus why we can sin. I have faith in something that is all powerful, all knowing, all loving to blot out evil. We can discuss atheism over theism in another thread if anybody so desires.
In my last point, if we look at scripture (one piece of evidence that god does exist is scripture) god has stuck to god's plan influencing people according to that plan w/o breaking free agency (depending on interpretation but also keep in mind if the interpretation is that god broke free agency god only broke free agency when it was according to god's plan) to be good people but humanity always falls back to sin. One great example that was mentioned here is the story of the exodus where god hardened the pharaoh's heart (how the hardening occurred is up to interpretation but we won't argue it here just remember that hardening the pharaoh's heart could have been as simple as telling moses what to do and god knew by performing those acts that pharaoh's heart would be hardened. In any case if god did harden pharaohs heart it would have been according to god's plan) in order to show certain things. Those things can be read in ex 9:16 and if you continue to read the bible you will find out that those people god rose up quickly returned back to sin. Please also keep in mind that this is the way god is choosing to show itself via scripture, prophets and revelation (all powerful, all knowing, all loving creator god).
Ex 9:16 NIV
"But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Edited by Alias, : organization
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World
"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking
"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein