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Author Topic:   Biblical Eugenics - being wrong about how to colorize your goats
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 185 (706617)
09-15-2013 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 6:35 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
I didn't mean to respond to you. I responded from my smartphone. Sorry. Ref post 39.

Edited by Alias, : Ref


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 6:35 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 185 (706618)
09-15-2013 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Larni
09-15-2013 2:25 PM


Hello larni! Ref to post 40. Thx. Sorry about the confusion.

Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Larni, posted 09-15-2013 2:25 PM Larni has not replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 185 (706624)
09-15-2013 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by frako
09-15-2013 7:06 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Such as? I mean the idea that abiogenesis occurred is completely logical to atheists yet there is absolutely no evidence for it. What do you purpose how life started?

Edited by Alias, : question


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by frako, posted 09-15-2013 7:06 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 09-15-2013 9:08 PM Alias has replied
 Message 49 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 10:22 PM Alias has not replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 185 (706628)
09-15-2013 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
09-15-2013 9:08 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
no not really. Most theists believe in some format of religion. Very few fall into the free thought (my)neck of the woods.

Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 09-15-2013 9:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-15-2013 10:16 PM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 185 (706632)
09-15-2013 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
09-15-2013 10:16 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
jar writes:

Believing in religion has nothing to do with understanding science.

Correct. IT is very interesting that science, good philosophy and good theology agree.

jar writes:

Free thought is just cheap thought anyway.

Free thought is much better than main stream thought.

Edited by Alias, : addition

Edited by Alias, : deletion


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-15-2013 10:16 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Coyote, posted 09-15-2013 10:38 PM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 185 (706635)
09-15-2013 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Coyote
09-15-2013 10:38 PM


Re: Off-topic and nonsense besides
Im guessing that you believe in evolution (understandable). Well greek philosophers argued evolution long before science theorized it. Seems like science is following the foot steps of philosophical idea.

Theology has plenty of subject matter including suggestions that the earth brought forth life. It too discusses evolution.

Coyote writes:

Science, on the other hand, has led us to huge advances in knowledge in the past few centuries, and in doing so has disproved many of the unevidenced tenets of religious belief and largely ignored the vacuous musings of philosophy.

No disagreement but science is rather lost without fresh ideas, you know those imaginative ones that come from free thought.

IMO, it is better to have free thought because it is the leading path way. I'm not arguing in favor of the toe, just making a point which renders your point and quotes moot.


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Coyote, posted 09-15-2013 10:38 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Coyote, posted 09-15-2013 11:27 PM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 185 (706638)
09-15-2013 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Coyote
09-15-2013 11:27 PM


Re: Off-topic and nonsense besides
Fact is not equal to the toe. The toe is an idea based on facts and so is creationism. Theories change like the wind. No I'm not confusing the usage of the word theory with that of speculation. Religion has never been in control of people except in very early times of most cultures. Religion has been a tool to control the people since the beginning though. I don't think hitler was all that religious do you? He is one example of secular thought that was evil. So don't get to high and mighty about secular thought. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Power is the issue not religion. As for your comments on theology and proving that god exists, I don't think that is a fair and logical conclusion/thought since science can't even prove anything. Theories don't quantify to truth/proof. Evidence/facts don't quantify to truth. Ever think, what if god does not want you to know it exists absolutely but would rather have you be free from those chains to see what you will do without that fear/control? And if god was that way, that would be its choice. All the science in the world would be completely blind to it. Perhaps god wants you to have faith vs absolute knowledge... In that case I believe theology has lots to tell you. Do you ever ponder why particles come in infinite types? Even if they find the higgs bosson we still need to figure out those particles that are moving around creating larger mass. Then that will continue on forever to the next smaller particle. Why is it that now we live in a multi verse? What's next? It used to be just a universe.

Edited by Alias, : 1 more point

Edited by Alias, : clarity

Edited by Alias, : question

Edited by Alias, : gram

Edited by Alias, : more


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Coyote, posted 09-15-2013 11:27 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2013 12:05 AM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 185 (706640)
09-16-2013 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 10:46 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Did you actually refer to a commentary. Lol. OK so it was not to make them strong. Perhaps to help them mate then. Does not change much. Ref to verse 40, which you skipped, then back to my post 17. The rest of your post is moot. If laban removed any spotted flock, etc to cheat jacob how could jacob line up flock facing those spotted speckled flock in v 40??? Answer please! Jacob removed them in 35 had access to them in v 40 and used them to make new spotted ones in 37, 38, and 39. This entire thread is trying to bash the bible that is the point of it. It is not to discuss the verse logically or even friendly. Get it straight. Lol. This website is filled with atheists lol...

Edited by Alias, : Err

Edited by Alias, : Err

Edited by Alias, : Err


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 10:46 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 8:25 AM Alias has replied
 Message 59 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 9:10 AM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 185 (706663)
09-16-2013 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by NoNukes
09-16-2013 8:25 AM


Re: a test for honesty.
35 does not make it clear laban removed the animals. It would be clear if it read laban removed the animals but that is not how it reads. And in your last paragraph when you admit they are facing laban's colored animals you expect me to believe that they were 3 days apart from Jacob??? Roflol. Now who's making stuff up... Jeez man all you have to do is admit you don't know instead of writing its so clear.... But I can tell you won't. I'll just take that last paragraph as you admitting you re making stuff up as you go... At least I admitted my mistakes. I predict you will respond saying oh no its so clear blah blah blah.. How about this, its clear this chapter is not clear what happened.... I'll agree to that long before I agree to a con/cheat occurring hence post 17 my last paragraph. And one last comment, in my prev posts when I say this or that is moot it's because at times I'm on my smart phone and don't have the ability to respond defeating your posts using quotes formating so to be clear I respond to the broader point that covers your smallers points and I toss in this or that is moot to let you know I read and argued those points in what I did post by defeating your broader point.

Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 8:25 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 9:49 AM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 185 (706665)
09-16-2013 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Coyote
09-16-2013 12:05 AM


Re: Off-topic and nonsense besides
Right, which you knew would happen yet you engaged... Good way to withdraw I suppose.

Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2013 12:05 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 185 (706670)
09-16-2013 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by NoNukes
09-16-2013 9:10 AM


Re: a test for honesty.
I'll take your first point that since I don't believe Jesus walked on water so why should you believe your version of gen 30-31. FYI: my version of 30 is different than fundies point of view that's something i'm proud of but that does not quantify to trash talking the story since I'm standing up for what the story reads hence verse 30:40 that the colored flock were with jacob as he removed them in v 35. There is value to the story and it is god helped the faithful. I'll agree to that point.

Edited by Alias, : Err


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 9:10 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 12:28 PM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 185 (706678)
09-16-2013 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by NoNukes
09-16-2013 9:49 AM


Re: a test for honesty.
I'm going to respond to the main conversation. In verse 30:40 it reads that Jacob faced the young, that were born in 39, toward the colored flock of Laban's. It even states it was to seperate his from Laban's which means jacob had access to Laban's colored flock from 35. No where does it suggest laban left colored flock behind after (if laban removed them in 35) removing them in 35. If we read it as Jacob removing them in 35, 30:40 is much more clear as is the whole passage due to their agreement in 32-34 and in CH 29 where it reads laban wanted to pay Jacob something (vs cheating him).

Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 9:49 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 12:32 PM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 185 (706681)
09-16-2013 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by NoNukes
09-16-2013 12:32 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
??? Your second sentence answers your first.

Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 12:32 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 185 (706682)
09-16-2013 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by NoNukes
09-16-2013 12:32 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Maybe this will clear it up. The agreement in 32 between laban and Jacob was for Jacob to breed colored/spotted, etc flock using Laban's flock as wages from laban. That way there is no gift from laban as per 31. Then it took place.

Edited by Alias, : Clarity


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 12:32 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 2:27 PM Alias has replied
 Message 72 by PaulK, posted 09-16-2013 2:52 PM Alias has replied

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 185 (706683)
09-16-2013 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by NoNukes
09-16-2013 12:28 PM


Re: Reading comprehension.
Laban's colored sheep in 40 came from the flock Jacob removed in 35 as per the agreemeant in 32. And I'm not doing a diservice to the bible as I'm not claiming god's servant is conning laban (thus making the bible seem as though it is endorsing conning). The passage is not clear and that is why interpretations vary. But I am interpreting it to support biblical thought that a con by god's servant didn't happen and is supported by biblical fact v 30-42. On top of that I will assert that this part of the story does matter because it portrays the morality of god hence why god is helping it's faithful servant.

Edited by Alias, : Clarity

Edited by Alias, : clarity


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 12:28 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2013 2:21 PM Alias has replied

  
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