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Author Topic:   Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?
faitheist
Junior Member (Idle past 3466 days)
Posts: 28
From: Australia
Joined: 09-19-2013


Message 1 of 376 (706932)
09-19-2013 7:38 PM


Hi, all. I find this whole subject fascinating and I'm pleased to have found a place to discuss it all in a civilized manner.
I'm sure this has been asked already but here it is again: Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Change topic title from "New here, questions for creationists" to "Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?"

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by NoNukes, posted 09-20-2013 12:14 AM faitheist has not replied
 Message 9 by Dogmafood, posted 09-20-2013 3:49 AM faitheist has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 376 (706934)
09-19-2013 11:23 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 376 (706935)
09-19-2013 11:25 PM


BIBLE STUDY FORUM - not a science topicI
I set this up as a "Bible Study" topic, not a science topic.
Please keep to the theological side of the question.
Adminnemooseus

Or something like that.

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 376 (706936)
09-20-2013 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by faitheist
09-19-2013 7:38 PM


Nope
{Non-topic snark hidden - Adminnemooseus}
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide snark.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by faitheist, posted 09-19-2013 7:38 PM faitheist has not replied

  
faitheist
Junior Member (Idle past 3466 days)
Posts: 28
From: Australia
Joined: 09-19-2013


Message 5 of 376 (706939)
09-20-2013 1:35 AM


Not sure what's going on ...
I asked the original question not as a Bible study question but as science question. I'm new here, but I see a banner here with Creation Versus Evolution.
Is this subject taboo? Tell me now so I don't waste any more time.

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-20-2013 2:38 AM faitheist has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 6 of 376 (706941)
09-20-2013 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by faitheist
09-20-2013 1:35 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
I asked the original question not as a Bible study question but as science question.
Well, you didn't say so in message 1, and I thought the Bible study angle was more interesting, and something that hadn't been covered here much if at all previously.
Is this subject taboo?
No, but from the science side it does seem pretty dumb.
Since you want this topic to go the science direction, I'll ask you what your position is, per the topic title question. Do you think we are all descendants of Adam and Eve? Why or why not?
Adminnemooseus

Or something like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 1:35 AM faitheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 2:54 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 16 by arachnophilia, posted 09-21-2013 1:04 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
faitheist
Junior Member (Idle past 3466 days)
Posts: 28
From: Australia
Joined: 09-19-2013


Message 7 of 376 (706943)
09-20-2013 2:54 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Adminnemooseus
09-20-2013 2:38 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
It looks like I've come to the wrong place. The fact that I asked the question in the science forum should be enough reason to leave it there.
I also didn't know it was up to someone else to determine which angle would be interesting. I asked the question with a view to open a discussion about the topic which I thought would be interesting.
The inference that I'm 'dumb' for asking the question from a science point of view is surprising to say the least. Do you all judge so quickly?
I guess I'll just leave it at that and consider myself and my questions unwelcome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-20-2013 2:38 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Tangle, posted 09-20-2013 3:03 AM faitheist has not replied
 Message 25 by jaywill, posted 10-18-2013 7:45 AM faitheist has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 8 of 376 (706946)
09-20-2013 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by faitheist
09-20-2013 2:54 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
faithiest writes:
I guess I'll just leave it at that and consider myself and my questions unwelcome.
The question is not at all unwelome, it's just a bit of a puzzle.
There is no science for the biblical account of Adam and Eve, in fact all science refutes it - hence the 'dumb' remark. But if you think there is something that can be discussed scientifically, then go ahead, we'll have a go at pretty much anything here, you just have to frame the question in a way that makes sense for the rest of us.
At the very least tell us why you think it can be subject to scientific enquiry.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 2:54 AM faitheist has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 349 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 9 of 376 (706950)
09-20-2013 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by faitheist
09-19-2013 7:38 PM


Myths and Fairy Tales
Hi faitheist and welcome.
Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?
The answer is no. The story of A&E is a myth. As NoNukes points out there are many other creation myths with equally valid claims to accuracy.
Science tells us that we all have a common ancestor but what reason is there to believe that it might have been any character from this particular creation myth? I mean why would you even consider the possibility? What evidence do you have that would support such an idea?
You are referencing an allegorical creation myth written 4 or 5k yrs ago. What part of your reality today would lead you think that it was actually true?
I asked the original question not as a Bible study question but as science question.
There is nothing outside of the bible for science to investigate regarding this question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by faitheist, posted 09-19-2013 7:38 PM faitheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 3:57 AM Dogmafood has replied

  
faitheist
Junior Member (Idle past 3466 days)
Posts: 28
From: Australia
Joined: 09-19-2013


Message 10 of 376 (706951)
09-20-2013 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dogmafood
09-20-2013 3:49 AM


Re: Myths and Fairy Tales
Of course I don't believe in the myth. My next question to any creationists was' how do you account for the different races of humans on the planet?'. I have since found the most ludicrous explanation on a bible study website and I assume I would have gotten a copy/paste of that.
My point was going to be that even if you believe in A&E, you would have to believe in evolution too, in order to account for the different races. A&E couldn't have been all races. A&E's descendants would have had to evolve, in 6,000 years. But now I see that those who do believe in the bronze age myths have an explanation for everything ... everything but the most logical, beautiful, proven theory off all.
I'm not sure why I wasted any time on this!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dogmafood, posted 09-20-2013 3:49 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Dogmafood, posted 09-20-2013 4:09 AM faitheist has seen this message but not replied
 Message 12 by Tangle, posted 09-20-2013 4:10 AM faitheist has seen this message but not replied
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 09-20-2013 12:42 PM faitheist has not replied
 Message 14 by NoNukes, posted 09-21-2013 12:05 AM faitheist has not replied
 Message 15 by Coyote, posted 09-21-2013 12:14 AM faitheist has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 349 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 11 of 376 (706952)
09-20-2013 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by faitheist
09-20-2013 3:57 AM


Re: Myths and Fairy Tales
You should state the position that you are trying to support from the outset.
...everything but the most logical, beautiful, proven theory off all.
Which one is that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 3:57 AM faitheist has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 12 of 376 (706953)
09-20-2013 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by faitheist
09-20-2013 3:57 AM


Re: Myths and Fairy Tales
faithiest writes:
I'm not sure why I wasted any time on this!
Don't you think it's a little early to reach that conclusion? You have, after all, only just begun to tell us what your position on it is.
Now that we know that you're agin' the idea of A&E, you'll have to wait for someone to come along that is for it to tell you why.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 3:57 AM faitheist has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 13 of 376 (706993)
09-20-2013 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by faitheist
09-20-2013 3:57 AM


Re: Myths and Fairy Tales
faitheist writes:
A&E couldn't have been all races. A&E's descendants would have had to evolve, in 6,000 years.
Creationists do believe in extrememly rapid evolution from a "super-genome" which contained every possible characteristic. "All cats came from two cats" after the Flood and so on. I'm not clear on whether or not that was happening before the Flood - and if not, why not.
The races supposedly came from Noah's three sons, Shem (Semites), Ham (black folks and probably various shades of brown too) and Japheth (white "Aryan" supermen). I'm not clear on why that began only after the Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 3:57 AM faitheist has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 376 (707034)
09-21-2013 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by faitheist
09-20-2013 3:57 AM


Re: Myths and Fairy Tales
Of course I don't believe in the myth. My next question to any creationists was' how do you account for the different races of humans on the planet?'
Thank goodness. I feel as if my snarky first post has been vindicated. I knew you did not want your thread here.
But to be fair to Moose, I'm sure if you had posted some of the discussion here, he would have had a better shot at getting you sorted.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 3:57 AM faitheist has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 15 of 376 (707035)
09-21-2013 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by faitheist
09-20-2013 3:57 AM


Re: Myths and Fairy Tales
My next question to any creationists was' how do you account for the different races of humans on the planet?'.
Races are easy!
They are created by a mixture of geographic factors and descent groups.
There are lots of books giving the details.
And races have nothing to do with old tribal myths.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by faitheist, posted 09-20-2013 3:57 AM faitheist has not replied

  
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