YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.

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As I've mentioned before, the word "allah" is derrived form the same root as "eloah", one of the biblical names for God.

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Elohim (Hebrew for god) of the Bible is not a proper name or one of the names for God, perse. It is the Hebrew word for god and is a generic word (not a proper name) for any god, including the god of the Bible, Jehovah/Yahweh.The problem with saying Allah (proper name) of the Quran is same as elohim of the Bible is that in the Quran it is the only name for the Muslim god and the real propher name for Jehovah of the Bible isn't even in the Quran. The word god/allah in the Quran was transformed by an Arab pagan worshiper, Muhammed into the propher name of his god. He then forced all the other pagans to worship his god, Allah. An Arab would also have no other word to use in reference to a pagan god, but the word, "allah" because that's their word by definition which means a god. I've checked that out with a translator and as well, an Indonesian Muslim earlier a few months ago on one of these forums verified that to be the case. As I've said before again and again, the name of the Biblical god is not god/allah/elohim. It is YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah.

Islamic leaders teach that Allah is the god also of the Bible, but:1. Bibles aren't allowed in most Muslim fundie nations.
2. They don't recognize the Biblical god/elohim Jehovah. They only recognize Allah and that's all they are allowed to recognize.Bottom line is that they want everyone to believe they are the same god so as to not disuade people in Christian lands from becoming Muslims.

I guess you've managed to forget that even your own sources don't even agree that "Allah" is a name, rather than a title.And the fact that the Quran was - according to Muhammad and Islam - announced by Gabriel is strong confirmation of the Judeo-Christian links.The evidence is against you.

A Muslim friend of mine described the illuminations that
God has provided to people as kindof like an onion.When we are developed enough to understand more, God
reveals more.He was very definite in his belief that the god of the
Quran was also the god of the NT and OT.Fiddling about with defining names is pretty irrelevant compared
to the beliefs of the members of the Isalmic faith.What politicians allow or not is also not releavnt to
religions.

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I guess you've managed to forget that even your own sources don't even agree that "Allah" is a name, rather than a title.
And the fact that the Quran was - according to Muhammad and Islam - announced by Gabriel is strong confirmation of the Judeo-Christian links.

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The evidence is against you.

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Paulk if you would bother to reread my own sources in this thread, you'll find that I have changed nothing. I did in fact explain how Allah (higher case) was the Arabic proper name for the Islamic god of Muhammed and allah(lower case) was the Arabic generic word for other gods.

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1. Very early on in post *2 of this thread I explained this carefully.

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2. In post #23 of this thread our Muslim Indonesian cyberfriend, Andya Primanda corroberated my statements

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3. Then in post #28 I profusely thanked him for clarifying and making my point.

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As for the Biblical stuff in the Quran, Muhammed did a lot of what Joseph Smith did in the Book of Mormon. He laced his book of his own doctrines with Biblical stuff so as to relate it with the Bible and lend it credence, except that Muhammed got more of the Biblical stuff more mixed up more than even Joseph Smith did.

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[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-03-2003]

What Andya said is :"'Allah' in literal Arabic is translated as just 'God'. Not a specific name like Andya or John or buz"So Andya did NOT confirm your assertion that "Allah" is a proper name. He explicitly denied it.

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What Andya said is :
"'Allah' in literal Arabic is translated as just 'God'. Not a specific name like Andya or John or buz"

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So Andya did NOT confirm your assertion that "Allah" is a proper name. He explicitly denied it.

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Yah, PaulK, you're right in that I forgot that the lower case was ilaha (similar) but not same as Allah. He did confirm that the name Allah and the word alaha have the same meaning, except that one is the lower case and the other the higher.He also confirmed that the meaning of the Muslim god, Allah is not the same as the meaning of the Biblical god, Jehovah, because the meaning of Jehovah is 'the existing one' or 'the I am,' and not simply 'god.'

So that's your explanation for completely reversing the meaning of what Andya said ? You "forgot" what he said ? Didn't you look it up ?And of course "Allah" does not mean the same as "YHWH" - it means the same as "God". Which English speaking Jews and Christians use just as Arabic speaking Christians use "Allah".

Paul K:
Apparently I should read all other 88 posts in this thread before jumping in. Nevertheless, I'm not certain what constitutes "a pagan god."
For example, was El, the god to whom Melchi Tzedek served as high priest in Shalem at the time of Father Abraham, a "pagan god?" Remember, this is the same El that Yetro the Medianite, and Moishe's father-in-law, served as high priest to.
Is this apparently Canaanite/Medianite diety, El, the same diety known to Arabs as "Allah?"
On another track, what seems to make "supreme" dieties appear "pagan" in some folks' reckoning is that some of these dieties are accompanied by consorts (Ashtar, Oester, etc.) or by "heavenly hosts." (I think I was told that the three demigods associated with Allah before Muhammad dissed them out where known as the "Fates" or entities representing like maybe "wind, fire," etc.)
Anyway, if a supreme god having a consort or being accompanied by heavenly hosts constitutes being "a pagan god," then we are all walking on very thin ice. Remember that YHVH is attributed to have said something like "let us (elohim) make man." Now some theologogs will tell you that the plural use of "Elohim" (please note the root word "EL")is a "royal first person plural" usage. Maybe so. Others will say that "Elohim" refers to El (or Yah, or Adonai, or whatever you may prefer) and "his" female consort as a male/female dualistic diety was commonly believe and worship in ancient Canaan. Some Christians and Jews will simply say that God was saying something along the lines of "hey, you archangels and other heavenly hosts, come watch while I create man."
Well anyway, Paul, I'm getting a little far afield here. I think the question I would pose is "what constitutes a 'pagan god?'"
If the answer is "any diety that was not originally and thereafter continuously perceived as totally One, monotheistically pure, ungendered, indescribable, omnipotent, omnicient, unaccompanied, incorporal, non-iconized creator being, then I think most existing forms of religion better take a long, solemn look at their diety for even the slightest taint of "paganism" before pointing an accusing finger at another religion.[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 12-03-2003]

Buzzsaw:
You may wish to know that some serious students of scripture hold that nobody alive today truly knows the correct pronounciation of "YHVH."
For you to imply that YHVH is pronounced "YahWeh" is okay by me, but will offend and be contradicted by a great number of seriously well-educated and devout biblical scholars who will tell you that no one knows what vowels originally were used inbetween the consonants Y-H-V-H.
Other well-informed, well-schooled biblical scholars additionally will tell you that the word "Jehovah" came in to usage at a rather late date in the Judeo-Christian scheme of things, theologically speaking. These scholars hold that "Jehovah" was manufactured by taking the vowels from "adonai" and inserting them inbetween the consonants in "YHVH" to obtain "YaHoVaH."
Also, some devout monotheists are rather perplexed by the use of the plural form for "El" which is of course "Elohim."
But since all these things are debatable, I want you to know that I do not present this information in order to engage in or engender a harsh exchange of words, rather simply to pass the time in an intellectually stimulating way.
Peace.

Oh it's quite simple really. This thread is all about Buzsaw repeating ant-Islamic propaganda claimign that Allau is "really" a pagan moon-godwith no connection to the Christian deity, while I (and others) point out the facts...

Abshalom, it was just as easy to fill in the vowels for the name YHWH as it is for any other Hebrew word. Are you forgetting that none of the Hebrew words have vowels in them? The pronunciation of the consonents determines what vowels to use when translating, do they not? The name is in the earlier Jewish scriptures to be read and was read by them.The name Allah can be attributed to any god so far as the Bible goes, because the Bible uses the the word elohim in reference to pagan gods as well as the Biblical god, Jehovah. You and Paulk seem to evade my factual point that Jehovah's name is not elohim. Elohim's name is Jehovah. I am a man as Jehovah is a god/elohim. How can you not see this?

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Oh it's quite simple really. This thread is all about Buzsaw repeating ant-Islamic propaganda claimign that Allau is "really" a pagan moon-godwith no connection to the Christian deity, while I (and others) point out the facts...

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So I misspronounced the lower case allah. That in no way nullifies all the other factual input I've given in this thread, none of which you've sensibly refuted. Correct me if I'm wrong with documentation, please PaulK.

Sorry Buz, but showing that a point is irrelevant is not evading it. Allah is not a name it is the Arabic equivalent of God. So unless you want to say tht everyone who talks about "God" doesn't follow the God of the Bible (and that includes you) then you don't have a point.

As I said you misrepresented a post claiming that it said the exact o