What if this forum was dominated by creationists?

yenmor writes: is it possible that the good inhabitants of this place are slowly slipping down the rabbit hole?

Of course.

The way to measure if this is occurring is to look at the controls placed on the system. In this case (online forums) the controls are moderation, banning and even post editing/erasing.

I know that the EvolutionFairyTales site mentioned keeps those controls very tight. Even including post editing and full erasure of ideas they find to be incongruent of their own.

The Tech forum you mention seems to be pretty quick on the banning, do you know if they delete posts at all?

Deletion of ideas would be a definitive indication of "slipping down the rabbit hole."

Do you see any of these signs occurring here?

Moderation issues?
Banning issues?
Deletion/Editing of posts?

From Message 5:

yenmor writes: We are, after all, the worst evaluator of ourselves. People with stinky breaths don't think they have stinky breaths.

From Message 34:

yenmor writes: Anyway, I also get cranky when people call me judgmental. They have no idea that when I say what I say, it's literal and not a put down. It's not me exaggerating or calling them names. It's exactly how it is literally.

Which is it?

Are you immune to being "the worst evaluator of yourself"? Or is it possible that what you think you're judging as "exactly how it is literally" could be interpreted another way?

yenmor writes: Here is why my 2 statements can coexist together.

...where? All you did was describe his family. I don't care about your (or his) personal life. It was just a question.

So, how exactly would you describe such a family?

I don't care as it has nothing to do with what I'm trying to ask.

Am I not allowed to call them a white trash family?

Again, I don't care.

Here's what I said again:

quote:

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From Message 5:

yenmor writes: We are, after all, the worst evaluator of ourselves. People with stinky breaths don't think they have stinky breaths.

From Message 34:

yenmor writes: Anyway, I also get cranky when people call me judgmental. They have no idea that when I say what I say, it's literal and not a put down. It's not me exaggerating or calling them names. It's exactly how it is literally.

Which is it?

Are you immune to being "the worst evaluator of yourself"? Or is it possible that what you think you're judging as "exactly how it is literally" could be interpreted another way?

---

I don't care about the subject you were expressing these ideas about. It could be a shitty family, it could be a great family, it could be an average family, it could be licorice sticks.

I'm just interested in the two ideas you're claiming to hold about yourself.

On one hand you seem to claim that people are the worst evaluators of themselves... it is difficult for us to determine if we're being objective or not. It is difficult to identify when we're wrong. This seems very reasonable and mature.

On the other hand, you seem to claim that when you describe something... it's "exactly literal" and not judgemental in any way.

It seems contradictory... which is it? Are you able to be perfectly objective all the time? Or is it possible that you make mistakes?

I'm not asking you to defend your boyfriend, or validate your feelings about his family or worry about being seen as correct or good-enough or smart... I really don't care. The situation may be screwed up, but things can always be worse and/or always be better. This isn't some competition to show how difficult or righteous your life is. I just don't care. We all have our own troubles... some will be lessor than yours, others will be greater... and you won't always be the one to judge such anyway.

What I do care about is the question I asked and the one you haven't answered yet.
You seem to be claiming two very contradictory ideas, and I'm wondering how you keep both of them in your head.

It's perfectly valid if you don't care to answer my question. I'm not going to hunt you down or anything. You're free to simply not answer it if you don't want to for whatever reason. But, really, you haven't addressed it at all yet so I don't know if you don't understand me or if you don't want to answer.

yenmor writes: Stile writes: On the other hand, you seem to claim that when you describe something... it's "exactly literal" and not judgemental in any way. No, I did not. I was referring to that specific instance of my description of that family.

I see. Then, for this specific instance, how do you know you are being "exactly literal" and not evaluating your own judgement incorrectly?

..do you think I am justified in calling that family white trash?

I think you're justified in calling anyone anything you'd like. It's your mouth.
I'm fairly confident you're accurately describing the actions you've listed.
I'm also fairly confident you're not describing all their actions, and that they do other things that would certainly not be labelled as white trash.

I'm sure you and I both do things that can be called white trash.
I'm sure we both do things that go against that label as well.

It is extremely rare to find a person (let alone a family) that is one thing all the time. May even be impossible.

You've presented a false dilemma of 2 extremes.

I didn't present anything. I just asked a question about some stuff that you said.

So, which is this? Did you misread what I said? Did you quote-mine me? Are you just looking for someone to disagree? Are you just being politically correct? I'm trying to figure out where this is coming from.

I just found it interesting that earlier you mentioned how people can't ever really be positive that anything they judge is ever really 100%valid. Then you get onto a topic that you're passionate about, and all of a sudden you're "exactly literal." It seemed like a contradiction to me and I was just wondering if you'd ever get around to this again:

Not all my descriptions of anything are always correct. Like everyone else, I am not immune to misconceptions.

Exactly.
Myself included. Which is why I asked you a question for clarification in the first place.

yenmor writes: Based on the details I've given, how else would you describe this family?

Like I said in my last post, I would describe them like this:

quote:

---

I think you're justified in calling anyone anything you'd like. It's your mouth.
I'm fairly confident you're accurately describing the actions you've listed.
I'm also fairly confident you're not describing all their actions, and that they do other things that would certainly not be labelled as white trash.

I'm sure you and I both do things that can be called white trash.
I'm sure we both do things that go against that label as well.

It is extremely rare to find a person (let alone a family) that is one thing all the time. May even be impossible.

---

Just baiting for me to back peddle?

No, just wondering if you'll acknowledge that people aren't ever really black-or-white.

This is a place where we indicate inconsistencies and discuss them.
If you don't want to examine this area of your ideas, that's perfectly acceptable.

If your descriptions are accurate, I've no doubt that this family has an inclination towards trouble and you should stay away from them.
But statements like this are just interesting:

yenmor writes: Having known these people for years, I can confidently say everything about them is white trash. Before I met them I had no idea there's a family out there that actually resemble the stereotype.

Of course there's people that resemble the stereotype. If there wasn't anyone who resembled it... then it wouldn't exist as a stereotype.
There's plenty more than just this one family.
But, which is it? Do they just "resemble" the stereotype or is "everything about them" the stereotype?

You're the one choosing to speak in absolutes about people.
Any absolute statement you say about people isn't going to be true.

"All mothers love their children." -not true
"All rocket scientists are smart." -not true
"Nobody wants to die alone." -not true

That's how I can tell that you're wrong when you say "everything about them is white trash." Of course it isn't, that's just immature and dismissive to say such things.

If you're interested in getting to the bottom of any issues your boyfriend has with his family, then dismissing everything about them isn't going to help the two of you communicate about the concept.
If you're interested in getting as far away from the family as possible, dismissing everything about them won't allow you to anticipate anything they do correctly and you'll end up running into them again and having more problems.

Either way, dismissing the truth entirely isn't going to help you.