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Author | Topic: Which animals would populate the earth if the ark was real? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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So the burden of proof is on the ones making strange statements to back them up. You are the one making all sorts of strange statements and claims without providing any evidence to back them up. For example, three whoppers-- --A global flood at the P-T boundary--Humans, cattle, and grasses at the P-T boundary --A time frame compressed about 57,000 times by some silly but unexplained changes in the decay constants So before you make any more strange claims, how about some real evidence for the ones you have already made?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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evolutionary timeframes. That's a nice glib answer but it doesn't address the question. You are claiming humans, cows, and grasses at the P-T boundary 250 million years ago. Grasses didn't develop until about 190 million years later, while humans and domestic cattle are close to 250 million years later. But since you dispute the dating, this is quite clear in the layers without any necessary reference to absolute dates. The relative dates are sufficient to blow your whole imaginary scenario out of the water. You can come up with all the "what-ifs" you like, but until you have some evidence you have nothing but belief, and that, along with about $2.50, might barely get you a cup of coffee.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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So there is currently insufficient DNA data to refute the flood hypothesis... Not so. I have posted several times about mtDNA that has been found to be continuous over the purported flood boundary at about 4,350 to 4,500 years ago. One from my own work -- a skeleton dated to 5,300 years ago that has mtDNA identical to Native Americans currently living in the same area. No evidence of a discontinuity with replacement by mtDNA from the Middle East or thereabouts. This one bit of evidence alone disproves your global flood. (And don't start in about the P-T boundary and your "beliefs" concerning dating--that just makes you look even more foolish.) Rather than having a global flood, you're blown out of the water.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I need your evidence now to show how most floods do not involve a quick recovery of vegetation. What you need is recovery of vegetation, on a mountain top no less, that will feed grazing animals from day one. You and I both know that a good grass crop is not going to grow on rocks and snow, nor is it going to grow fast enough to keep the grazers from starving. I know my horses look for two square meals a day and get very testy if they are not on time. Lots of luck feeding critters up here:
You should only apply that rule to large terrestrial animals, otherwise its a strawman argument. Show me such an animal that does not have a bottleneck. So many alleles can form in 4500 years that a bottleneck is very difficult to establish if its not in the last two hundred years. Humans.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Coyote, your particular strain of evidence relies completely on the accuracy of carbon dating. although I understand your commitment to carbon dating, that is a subject for another thread. You have been studiously ducking that thread for a month or more. Just because you are dragging your feet on presenting your "evidence" on that thread doesn't mean you can assume that your viewpoint is correct--as it goes against all of established science. Until you can present evidence that established dating science is wrong, your delusions will remain as just that--delusions. That's the nature of evidence, and science.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I've covered all these points in this thread already. You have equivocated, dodged and weaved, and presented endless "what-ifs," along with numerous links to articles that contradict your claims.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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...and with the false assumptions of radiometric dating Which assumptions? You have been ducking the thread I started for radiocarbon dating for close to two months now. Sorry, you do not get to dismiss radiocarbon dating like that, with a simple hand-wave. Either document your silly claims over in that other thread or stop talking about radiocarbon entirely.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I keep saying I am not trying to prove a flood here. Untrue. Lots of things you keep saying are untrue. Not only are you trying to prove a flood, you are trying to prove a flood some 250 million years earlier than anyone else.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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In fact, an argument can be made that this debate really ended as soon as you began to rely on the K-T boundary as being the Flood. Its even sillier than that. The K-T boundary is about 66 million years ago. Mindspawn has been arguing that the flood occurred at the P-T boundary, some 252 million years ago!Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Mindspawn writes: What dating methods are the studies relying on? Carbon dating? This thread is not about carbon dating. But we do have a fine thread on carbon dating, which you have been ignoring for a couple of months now.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The earliest large varieties of mammals are found in the Egypt/Ethiopia region along with the earliest humans, as expected by the flood model. ... So I am not saying that the fossil record proves a biblical flood, but it is certainly consistent with one.
The earliest humans come some 250 million years after your imagined flood. Try as you might, you can't get around that one simple fact. Edited by Coyote, : No reason given.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The mainstream error is mainly due to evolutionary assumptions and carbon dating calibration, and is affected by an uneven exponential factor beyond 2000 years ago. So any scientific dates in the 5000-15000 year period I see as irrelevant to ark times, the ark would be from the (mainstream dates) 130 000 to 65 000 period, that entire period being very compressed into a few years. The cheetah being from the mainstream 10000 ye You really should stop inflicting your delusions about carbon dating on us until you can go to the thread I started for you about two months ago and document your claims.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I am nearly ready for the dates forum, we can discuss dating rocks there. It appears to be the main argument against a flood at the PT boundary. The dating forum I set up will not be dealing with the P-T boundary. If you read the opening post, I asked for discussion to be limited to the era of modern humans, the past 200,000 years and specifically excluded the P-T boundary etc. I would prefer to concentrate on radiocarbon dating, as that's the field I know best. That would be the last 50-60,000 years or so.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I am not trying to prove a flood. Sure you are. But you ran out of places to try and put it! You couldn't find evidence of any global floods in recent human history so you have had to go back some 250 million years in search of a place you could shoehorn your flood. Of course, this means you had to put modern humans back there also, some 250 million years before they actually developed, and that in turn meant you had to play silly games with geology and paleontology, dating and several other fields of study. All because you can't admit that the flood story has been disproved since at least the 1830s!Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
They don't help you correct C-14 dating in any significant way. Right. I've been dealing with C14 dating for forty years now, and this thread is about the first time I've heard anything about Rohl and his dating schemes. That stuff is simply not important to radiocarbon dating. If anything, radiocarbon dating is being used to correct the Egyptian chronologies, certainly it is not the other way around. I hope when we finally get to the dating thread it is not cluttered with such irrelevant nonsense.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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