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Author Topic:   Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 46 of 376 (709222)
10-22-2013 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by 1.61803
10-22-2013 10:03 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
I should clarify that we do not need God or religion to condemn or glorify our morality or humanity for that matter.
I agree that a non-theist or irreligious person has a human conscience to inform them of moral right and wrong.
But I think the prospect of meeting a Divine Judge who has an infallible record of your deeds would be more of a concern than knowing that all wrong doers will only dissolve peacefully back into the dust.
We do the things we do because we are products of evolution not because we are products of a creation myth imo.
Evolution doesn't care about truth or goodness as an objective standard. It only cares for what will further the survival of some species.
If there is a goodness out there, objectively, as a transcendent standard, how was it in existence before evolution caused life to arrive there at it ?
If the good was a reality before evolution groped its way to cause a species to realize it, what IS that goodness ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by 1.61803, posted 10-22-2013 10:03 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by 1.61803, posted 10-23-2013 10:43 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 47 of 376 (709223)
10-22-2013 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by jaywill
10-22-2013 6:06 PM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
What kind of post modernist despair is this that a man cannot recognize that humans are light years ahead of cheetahs, cockroaches, crab grass, and water buffaloes ?
You heard of the search for extra terrestrial intelligence SETI. How come they aren't spending the millions to search for say watercress or monitor lizards? Why is it the Search for Intelligence ? Something special about intelligence ? Why isn't it SETU - Search For Extraterrestial Unintelligents ?
According to you something along the line of a cheetah would be just as exciting.
Can you really be as dense and ignorant as that post suggests.
First, yes, Extraterrestial Unintelligents would be every bit as exciting, and we are actively searching for just that, or did you miss our devices we have sent to the moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury, the outer planets.
And to claim post modernest despair just makes you sound silly.
The reason that SETI looks for "Intelligence" (which is not what SETI relly looks for) is that it was pretty silly to look for signs of watercress across interstellar distances. However today we have better technology and Yes Virginia, we do look for signs of life, intelligent or not.
Why not the Search For Extra Terrestial T-Rexs then funded by millions of dollars ?
If we found two planets - one with just huge amounts of crab grass and another with cities, flying machines, televisions, and government, which do you think scientists would be more interested to go visit ?
No difference, right ?
Again, that is simply a really stupid question. Scientists would be equally excited by either scenario.
So we find a planet filled with Sequoias and another filled with an Internet like technology, which do you think the people of earth would be more interested in ?
The people of earth are generally ignorant and apathetic, and would likely rather someone make a reality TV show about them; maybe Real Housewives of Andromeda.
But which the people would be more interested in is irrelevant.
How silly your false humility is. Mankind is unique on the earth.
Sorry if you from some sense of false humility, you cannot honestly admit that.
Every species is unique on the earth. Sorry if your false pride keeps you from admitting that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by jaywill, posted 10-22-2013 6:06 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jaywill, posted 10-23-2013 7:44 AM jar has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 48 of 376 (709250)
10-23-2013 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
10-22-2013 6:20 PM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Again, that is simply a really stupid question. Scientists would be equally excited by either scenario.
Given that we discovered two planets, one with only large lizard like creatures and another with advance civilization, what would scientists likely do ?
I think for sure both would be exciting. I don't imply that the dinosaur world would not be exciting. But I'm certain that scientists would be far more interested in traveling to the one where there were intelligent beings like humans.
When NASA sent out the Voyager space craft they included the recordings of human beings and a diagram of human beings. How come they didn't send duck feathers or the sounds of dogs barking ?
Every species is unique on the earth. Sorry if your false pride keeps you from admitting that.
Nay. It is not false pride. It is appreciating other life forms but REALISTICALLY assessing the more uniqueness of human beings.
Realism understands that we are on one hand A creature like many others, whom we should appreciate. Yet at the same time realize that we are in some way on a higher plane of consciousness, a higher plane of life really.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 10-22-2013 6:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by caffeine, posted 10-23-2013 8:00 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 50 by jar, posted 10-23-2013 8:15 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 52 by Pressie, posted 10-24-2013 5:19 AM jaywill has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 49 of 376 (709252)
10-23-2013 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by jaywill
10-23-2013 7:44 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
When NASA sent out the Voyager space craft they included the recordings of human beings and a diagram of human beings. How come they didn't send duck feathers or the sounds of dogs barking?
The Voyager record does include the sound of dogs barking, along with a variety of other animal sounds. There are no duck feathers, as far as I know, but there are pictures which feature feathers. This one's got a bird in it:
And here's one of an eagle:
And not sure about these - are they tropic birds? They have feathers, anyway

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jaywill, posted 10-23-2013 7:44 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 9:49 AM caffeine has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 376 (709253)
10-23-2013 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by jaywill
10-23-2013 7:44 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Given that we discovered two planets, one with only large lizard like creatures and another with advance civilization, what would scientists likely do ?
I think for sure both would be exciting. I don't imply that the dinosaur world would not be exciting. But I'm certain that scientists would be far more interested in traveling to the one where there were intelligent beings like humans.
When NASA sent out the Voyager space craft they included the recordings of human beings and a diagram of human beings. How come they didn't send duck feathers or the sounds of dogs barking ?
Again, you are simply showing your ignorance but that hopefully can be cured.
There is far less need to travel to any technologically advanced world and lots of reasons not to. As an exercise try to figure out three major reasons that is true.
Second, when NASA sent out the Voyager probes they did include pictures of animals and sounds of animals and drawings of hydrogen atoms and oxygen atoms and diagrams of our solar system and many other artifacts.
But those were all just freebees, stuff that was likely a waste of time and that no one ever expected to really be seen; but the additional costs were so low it made sense to include them.
Realism understands that we are on one hand A creature like many others, whom we should appreciate. Yet at the same time realize that we are in some way on a higher plane of consciousness, a higher plane of life really.
Word salad. Sorry but that is just jabberwocky. Higher plane of consciousness? Higher plane of life? Well when on a Southwest flight the latter might be true but in general that is just nonsense.
AbE:
Here is the information about the sounds that are on Voyagers Golden Record
Edited by jar, : see AbE

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jaywill, posted 10-23-2013 7:44 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 10:15 AM jar has replied
 Message 59 by frako, posted 10-24-2013 10:53 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 51 of 376 (709263)
10-23-2013 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by jaywill
10-22-2013 6:18 PM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Hello jaywill,
Thanks for the response.
jaywill writes:
If there is a goodness out there, objectively, as a transcendent standard, how was it in existence before evolution caused life to arrive there at it ?
If the good was a reality before evolution groped its way to cause a species to realize it, what IS that goodness ? (bolding is mine0
If...the middle word of life.
I appreciate your point of view, however there may be a bit of anthromorphic thinking going on.
For instance if a lion male kills the brood of another male, most would think that heinous and cruel.
That is why I quoted Ripley in referencing how human behavior of deceit and treachery is seen as "bad". Because we humans have developed this distinction. Whereas other creatures have not.
I do think the domestic dog can feel pangs of guilt though, and that may simply be our anthromorphic thinking too. But I can almost swear my dog knows that digging under the fence is a no no.
The point is it is common for humans to assign our morality to our brethren animals. Our human sense of morality is both attracted and repelled by the seeming abject apathy nature appears to display in this regard. It is in my opinion, our attempt to allay our fears of a nihilistic existence.
Edited by 1.61803, : spelling

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jaywill, posted 10-22-2013 6:18 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 52 of 376 (709282)
10-24-2013 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by jaywill
10-23-2013 7:44 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
What does 'more uniqueness' even mean? It doesn't make any sense at all. There can't be shades of uniqueness . It's either unique or it isn't. Are you trying to change meanings of words? Trying a word salad?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jaywill, posted 10-23-2013 7:44 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 53 of 376 (709292)
10-24-2013 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by caffeine
10-23-2013 8:00 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
The Voyager record does include the sound of dogs barking, along with a variety of other animal sounds. There are no duck feathers, as far as I know, but there are pictures which feature feathers. This one's got a bird in it:
Thank you for the correction. Point taken. But I think those pictures of other animals are meant not for their sakes, should the space craft somehow fall among lower animals, but for more intelligent beings. Ie. those who could appreciate music, and the appearance of other creatures. Notice that the diagrams of humans were at the top.
Now let me ask you since another poster seems to jeer with giggles when I make the suggestion.
If we discovered two planets both with exciting news - one with nothing but insects let's say, and the other with an advanced technological civilization sending to earth complex codes of information, to which world do you think we would give more research ?
I think both are fascinating. I think far more interest would be had towards the planet with a human like civilization than the planet overrun by insect like creatures.
Now if anyone comes back with a cavalier attitude - "Oh, you are just being overly anthropomorphic" we differ. No use belaboring the point.
Humans are unique in the world and in the universe. Anyone who wants to retort "No more unique than a hedge hog or a salamander" I disagree.
I relate a humorous little story - An elementary school child asked his father "Daddy what is the toughest animal on the earth?" The father said - "The African lion is the toughest animal. The lion is fearsome. He is called the king of the jungle. And the lion is held in awe by all hunters."
The child sad "But dad, all the history books I read said that men hunted the lion, and that men captured the lion, and that even men tranquilized the lion and even gave it medicine. And even men brought in the lions to be in the circus and the zoo. So all the history books seem to say that man is the toughest creature on earth." And the father said "And that is what all history books are going to say until the lion learns to write history."
Most of us regard humans being on the top the scale. And every evolutionary sequence I ever saw from imaginative artists always have in the front of the line, or the top of the tree, to at the end of the supposed ascending scheme - you guessed it, a human being.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by caffeine, posted 10-23-2013 8:00 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 10:01 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 64 by caffeine, posted 10-24-2013 11:38 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 66 by Tangle, posted 10-24-2013 1:59 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 54 of 376 (709293)
10-24-2013 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by jaywill
10-24-2013 9:49 AM


Once again, an exercise for you in thinking.
There is far less need to travel to any technologically advanced world and lots of reasons not to. As an exercise try to figure out three major reasons that is true.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 9:49 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 10:19 AM jar has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 55 of 376 (709294)
10-24-2013 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
10-23-2013 8:15 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Again, you are simply showing your ignorance but that hopefully can be cured.
While I hear your fanfares about how ignorant I am and your name calling of my writing, somehow I never get anything from you supposedly administering superior education.
Tell me. Why don't we elect a German Shepherd dog for president ?
A dog has smelling skills far advanced of what a human can detect. How come we don't elect a dog for US president ?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 10-23-2013 8:15 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 10:40 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 65 by ringo, posted 10-24-2013 12:08 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 56 of 376 (709295)
10-24-2013 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
10-24-2013 10:01 AM


Re: Once again, an exercise for you in thinking.
There is far less need to travel to any technologically advanced world and lots of reasons not to. As an exercise try to figure out three major reasons that is true.
Completely misses the point. I thought you were suppose to be so much less ignorant than I.
Which would generate more interest - a planet of termites or a planet of cities with radar, radio, TV, computers, internet, etc?
"Ho hum. No difference" right ? Do you hate humanity ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 10:01 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 10:53 AM jaywill has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 57 of 376 (709297)
10-24-2013 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by jaywill
10-24-2013 10:15 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
jaywill writes:
Tell me. Why don't we elect a German Shepherd dog for president ?
A dog has smelling skills far advanced of what a human can detect. How come we don't elect a dog for US president ?
For the same reason that dogs do not elect a human as their President.
And again, just what the hell does any of your nonsense and rabbit holes have to do with the topic?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 10:15 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 11:13 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 376 (709298)
10-24-2013 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by jaywill
10-24-2013 10:19 AM


Re: Once again, an exercise for you in thinking.
Again, for scientists there would be no difference. Which the general public thinks is more interesting is pretty much irrelevant.
Now, will you try to answer the question?
quote:
There is far less need to travel to any technologically advanced world and lots of reasons not to. As an exercise try to figure out three major reasons that is true.
jaywill writes:
"Ho hum. No difference" right ? Do you hate humanity ?
I am human and so while I do hate much that humanity does and has done, I don't hate humanity.
But I am also honest and so realize that in many ways humans are inferior to other critters, less successful than other critters, particularly the other great apes like the gorilla.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 10:19 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 11:18 AM jar has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 59 of 376 (709299)
10-24-2013 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
10-23-2013 8:15 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Again, you are simply showing your ignorance but that hopefully can be cured.
I think the WTF is wrong with people thread established that that is impossible.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 10-23-2013 8:15 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 60 of 376 (709302)
10-24-2013 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
10-24-2013 10:40 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
For the same reason that dogs do not elect a human as their President.
Which proves that they are at least not more intelligent.
And again, just what the hell does any of your nonsense and rabbit holes have to do with the topic?
jar, for many years now after reading your posts, I can only regard you as 95% just a big mouth with good friends close by.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 10:40 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 11:15 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 10-24-2013 3:21 PM jaywill has replied

  
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