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Author Topic:   Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 61 of 376 (709303)
10-24-2013 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by jaywill
10-24-2013 11:13 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
And that's fine. I can't imagine why your opinion of me should carry any weight. But perhaps, you might try actually addressing some of the issues raised.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 11:13 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 62 of 376 (709304)
10-24-2013 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by jar
10-24-2013 10:53 AM


Re: Once again, an exercise for you in thinking.
Which the general public thinks is more interesting is pretty much irrelevant.
Wrong and terribly elitist.
I think you're mostly a terribly arrogant elitist with lots of buddies nearby.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 10:53 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 10-24-2013 11:25 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 10-24-2013 3:22 PM jaywill has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 63 of 376 (709305)
10-24-2013 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by jaywill
10-24-2013 11:18 AM


Re: Once again, an exercise for you in thinking.
Wrong and terribly elitist.
I think you're mostly a terribly arrogant elitist with lots of buddies nearby.
Again, I have absolutely no problem with you thinking that.
But perhaps you might actually address the issues raised and even if possible address the topic.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 11:18 AM jaywill has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 64 of 376 (709306)
10-24-2013 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by jaywill
10-24-2013 9:49 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
If we discovered two planets both with exciting news - one with nothing but insects let's say, and the other with an advanced technological civilization sending to earth complex codes of information, to which world do you think we would give more research ?
Contra jar, I'd say that of course we'd be more interested in the planet with the technological civilisation, since of course we'd be more interested in things more like us. But this says nothing to your general point, the idea that we are 'more unique' than a hedgehog or salamander. You've explained the reasons that the old-fashioned evolutionary trees put humans at the top in your little anecdote - because humans write the history and humans drew the trees. We ascribe greater significance to the things that make us unique than to the things which make other species unique, because we're us.
As for this:
Most of us regard humans being on the top the scale. And every evolutionary sequence I ever saw from imaginative artists always have in the front of the line, or the top of the tree, to at the end of the supposed ascending scheme - you guessed it, a human being.
Aside from being just another example of people being interested in people, it's also becoming quite old fashioned. Below you can see a pictorial representation the evolutionary relationships of modern mammals. Humans aren't pictured, but our branch is in the lower far left, just about the picture of the anteater.

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(5)
Message 65 of 376 (709308)
10-24-2013 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by jaywill
10-24-2013 10:15 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
jaywill writes:
Tell me. Why don't we elect a German Shepherd dog for president ?
They don't live to be thirty-five.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 10:15 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 66 of 376 (709310)
10-24-2013 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by jaywill
10-24-2013 9:49 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
jaywill writes:
Most of us regard humans being on the top the scale. And every evolutionary sequence I ever saw from imaginative artists always have in the front of the line, or the top of the tree, to at the end of the supposed ascending scheme - you guessed it, a human being.
This is pop-science, those trees are not what biologists think - they are, as you say, drawn by imaginative artists.
Real scientists know that there is no such thing as 'top of the tree'. In fact if you asked a biologist what is the most successful organism on our planet, they'd probably tell you it's a microbe.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 67 of 376 (709311)
10-24-2013 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Tangle
10-24-2013 1:59 PM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
In fact if you asked a biologist what is the most successful organism on our planet, they'd probably tell you it's a microbe.
Or a cockroach.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Tangle, posted 10-24-2013 1:59 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 68 of 376 (709313)
10-24-2013 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by jaywill
10-24-2013 11:13 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Which proves that they are at least not more intelligent.
Evolution is not measured by how intelligent a species is. Intelligence happens to be an adaption that has evolved quite well in our lineage, but it is no different than the aquatic adaptations in cetaceans or the speed that the cheetah evolved.
If you took an unbiased look at evolution you would realize this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 11:13 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jaywill, posted 10-25-2013 9:46 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 69 of 376 (709314)
10-24-2013 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by jaywill
10-24-2013 11:18 AM


Re: Once again, an exercise for you in thinking.
Wrong and terribly elitist.
The only elitism I am seeing is a person who insists that the goal of evolution was themselves, and all other species have fallen short.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jaywill, posted 10-24-2013 11:18 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by jaywill, posted 10-25-2013 9:39 AM Taq has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 70 of 376 (709353)
10-25-2013 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Taq
10-24-2013 3:22 PM


Re: Once again, an exercise for you in thinking.
The only elitism I am seeing is a person who insists that the goal of evolution was themselves, and all other species have fallen short.
Whether this process has a final goal or not may be argued. But you have to admit, I think, that evolutionists point to Man as to how far it has yet come.
I never hear it argued that the evolving of man was for the purpose to improve a better surviving sperm cell. But it is the better surviving sperm cell which facilitates the superior human born from it.
Of course some imagine that given continued evolving something better than a human being will come next. But evolutionists suggest the humanity is yet the best that has been produced by the process.
Metaphysically it seems that such a process would have as a final goal a living thing which can never die. What would be the ultimate survival but that which never dies ?
Somehow I see the process in competition to Christ who plainly tells us up front that whoever believes in the only begotten Son of God will not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16) .
Maybe Evolution is just man's way of imagining a natural process which can yield the same result one day as the will of God in sending His Son. (Subconsciously, I mean).
Anyway, I believe in a FIRST man and a FIRST woman.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 10-24-2013 3:22 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Taq, posted 10-25-2013 2:49 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 71 of 376 (709354)
10-25-2013 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Taq
10-24-2013 3:21 PM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Evolution is not measured by how intelligent a species is. Intelligence happens to be an adaption that has evolved quite well in our lineage, but it is no different than the aquatic adaptations in cetaceans or the speed that the cheetah evolved.
If you took an unbiased look at evolution you would realize this.
Do you have doubts about there being a first human ? Do you think the fade in was so gradual (given an evolutionary process) that Man ans Woman #1 is impossible?
And if that is the case do you think that could lead to the thought that some races are "more human" than some other races ? You know, that has been tried with horrible injustices and terrible results.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 10-24-2013 3:21 PM Taq has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 72 of 376 (709360)
10-25-2013 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by caffeine
10-24-2013 11:38 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Contra jar, I'd say that of course we'd be more interested in the planet with the technological civilisation, since of course we'd be more interested in things more like us. But this says nothing to your general point, the idea that we are 'more unique' than a hedgehog or salamander. You've explained the reasons that the old-fashioned evolutionary trees put humans at the top in your little anecdote - because humans write the history and humans drew the trees. We ascribe greater significance to the things that make us unique than to the things which make other species unique, because we're us.
Do you think that the ability of an animal to write history speaks of a further advancement of their cognitive abilities than those creatures which cannot ?
Aside from being just another example of people being interested in people, it's also becoming quite old fashioned. Below you can see a pictorial representation the evolutionary relationships of modern mammals. Humans aren't pictured, but our branch is in the lower far left, just about the picture of the anteater.
That could be simply a more environmentally sensitive depiction. I mean the concern today that humans may actually mess up the entire ecosystem for everyone else, is, I think, a realistic problem.
The difference is noted though. Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by caffeine, posted 10-24-2013 11:38 AM caffeine has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 376 (709374)
10-25-2013 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by jaywill
10-21-2013 10:57 PM


First man?
What is your evidence that you know that no first man ever existed ?
Um, don't you know how babies are born?
You don't really think that God poofed some dude into existence, do you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by jaywill, posted 10-21-2013 10:57 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by jaywill, posted 10-25-2013 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 80 by jaywill, posted 10-25-2013 5:31 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 74 of 376 (709379)
10-25-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by New Cat's Eye
10-25-2013 11:49 AM


Re: First man?
Um, don't you know how babies are born?
You don't really think that God poofed some dude into existence, do you?
I like the way all you guys come over from the science forums to argue with this Christian in the Bible Study room.
First let me ask you. If I believed that - "poof" when some lightening struck on a pool of primordial soup and, presto, the first living micro organism came into being, would that be less miraculous ?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-25-2013 11:49 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Tangle, posted 10-25-2013 12:49 PM jaywill has not replied
 Message 76 by jar, posted 10-25-2013 2:05 PM jaywill has not replied
 Message 78 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-25-2013 2:58 PM jaywill has replied
 Message 84 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2013 2:52 PM jaywill has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 75 of 376 (709381)
10-25-2013 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by jaywill
10-25-2013 12:19 PM


Re: First man?
jaywill writes:
First let me ask you. If I believed that - "poof" when some lightening struck on a pool of primordial soup and, presto, the first living micro organism came into being, would that be less miraculous ?
Yes that would be just as miraculous. Luckily that's not science either.
Where are you getting these misconceptions about evolution and abiogenesis from - creationist websites?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by jaywill, posted 10-25-2013 12:19 PM jaywill has not replied

  
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