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Author Topic:   Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 271 of 376 (710275)
11-04-2013 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by JonF
11-04-2013 8:46 AM


Re: First man?
It matters to me. But that's a very different question than "why are you here?".
Not that simple. To the thief you are HERE for the purpose of providing him with some money. The means by which he obtains it does not matter.
Now which one of you is right ? Is it your reason for being here, or the thief's reason you are here ?
I mean if man is the measure of all things - which man are we talking about ?
jw:
What good is evolution anyway ?
That's way off topic. But it is the best description we have of the history of life, by far, and knowledge in itself has some value. It's foundational to all of biology and a lot of medicine. And more.
While an evolution theory may contribute to some medicines it has also contributed to the barbarous eugenics, slavery, national policies of racial superiority, genocide, execution of retarded people.
But if there is no purpose for all of us being here, I guess it really doesn't matter in your outlook - medicine or no medicine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by JonF, posted 11-04-2013 8:46 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Theodoric, posted 11-04-2013 10:21 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 282 by jar, posted 11-04-2013 11:29 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 283 by JonF, posted 11-04-2013 12:38 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 272 of 376 (710276)
11-04-2013 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Tangle
11-04-2013 9:32 AM


Re: First man?
Tangle writes:
Third and last time - I'm not interested in discussing the bible with you.
Then what the heck are you doing in the Bible Study Forum? Jaywill has a point. There are far too many self proclaimed intellectuals or experts who never have yet found out what the Bible means...even as a human philosophical discussion.
And you wonder why we dont take your evidence seriously? It would be the same as if we took phrenology seriously!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2013 9:32 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by jaywill, posted 11-04-2013 9:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 274 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2013 10:09 AM Phat has replied
 Message 281 by ringo, posted 11-04-2013 10:54 AM Phat has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 273 of 376 (710277)
11-04-2013 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Phat
11-04-2013 9:41 AM


Re: First man?
Says Tangle -
I'm not interested in discussing the bible with you.
Phat,
I don't know about you, but I suggest we ignore people in the Bible Study Forum who admit repeatedly that they don't want to study the Bible.
Edited by jaywill, : Changed phrasing, thankyou.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 11-04-2013 9:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 274 of 376 (710279)
11-04-2013 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Phat
11-04-2013 9:41 AM


Re: First man?
Phat writes:
Then what the heck are you doing in the Bible Study Forum?
I'm here because the topic is "Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?" And the answer to that is "no".
Unless you are happy to hear the answer "no' and then stop, we're going to be doing what we've been doing and that's discussing evolution's answer to that question.
Moreover, asking for an explanation of irrelevant lumps of the bible not connected to the Adam and Eve story is miles off topic.
Try to keep up.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 11-04-2013 9:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 11-04-2013 10:26 AM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 275 of 376 (710280)
11-04-2013 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Tangle
11-03-2013 10:38 AM


Re: First man?
Tangle writes:
The Bible is a single short book which is extremely easy to understand - it has to be, it was written for illiterate, uneducated, bronze age peasants - rocket science it ain't.
Do you honestly think that your own wisdom makes reality plain to you? One arrogant human on one planet surrounding one star out of hundreds of billions...stands atop his tiny pedestal and proclaims that there is no God and that the Bible is a simple book for bronze age peasants??
Rom 1:22-23 writes:
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
More from that simple book:
Ps 14:1-3 writes:
The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
Who are the fevered shamans?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Tangle, posted 11-03-2013 10:38 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2013 10:37 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 284 by AZPaul3, posted 11-04-2013 3:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 276 of 376 (710284)
11-04-2013 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by jaywill
11-04-2013 9:40 AM


Re: First man?
While an evolution theory may contribute to some medicines it has also contributed to the barbarous eugenics, slavery, national policies of racial superiority, genocide, execution of retarded people
WTF?
How?
And please keep your answer rational.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by jaywill, posted 11-04-2013 9:40 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by jaywill, posted 11-05-2013 6:34 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 277 of 376 (710285)
11-04-2013 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Tangle
11-04-2013 10:09 AM


Re: First man?
Tangle writes:
Unless you are happy to hear the answer "no' and then stop, we're going to be doing what we've been doing and that's discussing evolution's answer to that question.
This comes close to breaking Forum Guidelines. You simply dont use evolution as an answer in a Bible study Forum. Can any admins help me out here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2013 10:09 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2013 10:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 278 of 376 (710289)
11-04-2013 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by Phat
11-04-2013 10:13 AM


Re: First man?
phat writes:
Do you honestly think that your own wisdom makes reality plain to you? One arrogant human on one planet surrounding one star out of hundreds of billions...stands atop his tiny pedestal and proclaims that there is no God and that the Bible is a simple book for bronze age peasants??
Yes I do, for the simple reason that it's a simple book written by simple people about other simple people. It's just a book, of course I can understand it. Can't you?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Phat, posted 11-04-2013 10:13 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 279 of 376 (710292)
11-04-2013 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Phat
11-04-2013 10:26 AM


Re: First man?
Phat writes:
This comes close to breaking Forum Guidelines. You simply dont use evolution as an answer in a Bible study Forum. Can any admins help me out here?
I suggest you read the first page of the forum. The original poster wanted to discuss the science as well, so we all did, and here we all are.
I would also point you to Jaywill's first post in the forum which was:
"Faitheist, if you are interested in the more scientific aspects of this question you might go to YouTube and look up a series of videos by Dr. Hugh Ross, an astrophysicist. The name of the series is Who Was Adam?.
Though Ross is an astrophysicist he has an organization called Reasons to Believe and works in conjunction with other creation scientists. I am not qualified to give wholesale agreement or disagreement. But he gets the discussion going in a balanced and scientific way.
Its 11 videos. Here's the first one -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo8T1_PArJY
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 280 of 376 (710293)
11-04-2013 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by jaywill
11-03-2013 8:20 PM


Re: First man?
jayill writes:
But then you'd be hard pressed to explain the whole rise of the Christian church from the Jewish nation in such a brief time.
The rise of cults in a short period of time is no unusual phenomenon. Often people are just itching to throw away their old beliefs and exchange them for new ones. That's a characteristic of belief versus knowledge.
Otherwise, you've really said nothing to address my post. Try again: The impact of people who believe in XYZ does not correlate to the truth value of those beliefs. Examples given: Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great. Their impact on the world does not prove their beliefs were accurate. Why does the impact of Jesus' followers suggest that their beliefs were accurate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by jaywill, posted 11-03-2013 8:20 PM jaywill has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 281 of 376 (710296)
11-04-2013 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Phat
11-04-2013 9:41 AM


Re: First man?
Phat writes:
And you wonder why we dont take your evidence seriously?
If you don't take evidence seriously, that's on you. It doesn't matter who is providing the evidence. It doesn't matter if his attitude is bad. Only the evidence matters.
Phat writes:
It would be the same as if we took phrenology seriously!!
That's a good example. Taking Adam and Eve seriously is very much like taking phrenology seriously. The True Believer will ignore all evidence in his efforts to take it seriously.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 11-04-2013 9:41 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 282 of 376 (710302)
11-04-2013 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by jaywill
11-04-2013 9:40 AM


Re: First man?
jaywill writes:
Not that simple. To the thief you are HERE for the purpose of providing him with some money. The means by which he obtains it does not matter.
Now which one of you is right ? Is it your reason for being here, or the thief's reason you are here ?
I mean if man is the measure of all things - which man are we talking about ?
Sorry but that argument is as stupid and sophomoric as using Rand as a guide.
Right has almost nothing to do with anything and no man really sets rules of behavior or conduct, rather just as in the Bible, it is societies and cultures that determine acceptable behavior.
You really haven't read the Bible have you?
jaywill writes:
While an evolution theory may contribute to some medicines it has also contributed to the barbarous eugenics, slavery, national policies of racial superiority, genocide, execution of retarded people.
Well, I was wrong. That argument is even dumber then the former.
Don't forget that religion, particularly Christianity also played a major part in all of those things and the Bible is replete with examples of genocide and ethic superiority and was a major justification for the genocide committed by the USA.
jaywill writes:
But if there is no purpose for all of us being here, I guess it really doesn't matter in your outlook - medicine or no medicine.
You're on a roll. Amazing.
No one said there is no purpose, rather we each create purpose.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by jaywill, posted 11-04-2013 9:40 AM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 11-04-2013 3:46 PM jar has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 283 of 376 (710311)
11-04-2013 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by jaywill
11-04-2013 9:40 AM


Re: First man?
Not that simple. To the thief you are HERE for the purpose of providing him with some money. The means by which he obtains it does not matter.
Now which one of you is right ? Is it your reason for being here, or the thief's reason you are here ?
As far as I know, I have no reason to be here and neither does the thief. But if there is a reason for being here, both of us could be right or both wrong or one wrong and the other right. So what?
While an evolution theory may contribute to some medicines it has also contributed to the barbarous eugenics, slavery, national policies of racial superiority, genocide, execution of retarded people.
As have all the major religions and many political movements and many other scientific discoveries. Some people do bad things for all sorts of reasons and using all sorts of tools. Don't blame the tools or their excuses, blame the people.
Guess you better turn off all the electricity in your home because of the horrible things that have been done with electricity. And don't get me started on automobiles! Or airplanes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by jaywill, posted 11-04-2013 9:40 AM jaywill has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 284 of 376 (710324)
11-04-2013 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Phat
11-04-2013 10:13 AM


Re: First man?
More from that simple book:
Ps 14:1-3 writes:
The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
Who are the fevered shamans?
Well, for one, the man that wrote that psalm. Another would be the man he wrote it for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Phat, posted 11-04-2013 10:13 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 285 of 376 (710325)
11-04-2013 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by jar
11-04-2013 11:29 AM


Pride comes before the fall
jar..here and in a thousand other posts writes:
You really haven't read the Bible have you?
You once mentioned that you dropped out of college due to your arrogance getting the best of you. Your arrogance still shows. Many people have read the Bible besides you, jar. They have not arrived at the same conclusions about it...or about its authorship...that you have. While you are a man of thought, you have yet to impress anyone with your biblical scholarship. Humility would impress some of us though. Oh and by the way...your Spirit would hardly call you "Boss"......jess sayin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by jar, posted 11-04-2013 11:29 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by jar, posted 11-04-2013 4:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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