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Author Topic:   Cow's milk - why do you keep sipping the poison?
kongstad
Member (Idle past 2870 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 76 of 84 (481696)
09-12-2008 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Agobot
09-11-2008 6:47 AM


And what prey tell, links transgenic mice to people drinking milk from cattle that rceive BGH?
Are there increased levels of BGH in the milk? Is the BGH absorbed in the milk drinkers? And what effects does this hypothetical BGH have on the human consuming it?
The study you referenced only looked at transgenic mice overexpressing BGH, this is very far from the subject at hand!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Agobot, posted 09-11-2008 6:47 AM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Agobot, posted 09-12-2008 9:42 AM kongstad has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5530 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 77 of 84 (481730)
09-12-2008 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by kongstad
09-12-2008 7:02 AM


Kongstad writes:
And what prey tell, links transgenic mice to people drinking milk from cattle that rceive BGH?
Are there increased levels of BGH in the milk? Is the BGH absorbed in the milk drinkers? And what effects does this hypothetical BGH have on the human consuming it?
The study you referenced only looked at transgenic mice overexpressing BGH, this is very far from the subject at hand!
Maybe there is something that links mice to humans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by kongstad, posted 09-12-2008 7:02 AM kongstad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by kongstad, posted 09-17-2008 6:26 PM Agobot has not replied

  
michael0156
Junior Member (Idle past 3698 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 09-10-2008


Message 78 of 84 (482663)
09-17-2008 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by kuresu
09-10-2008 5:08 PM


Re: Look before you leap
I see, kuresu, you are another one who doesn't look or think or read before he leaps, or in this case stumbles and falls flat on his face.
From your photo you don't look healthy, but your perception of your health may be affected by the thimerosal that was in your vaccinations.
Anyone whose argument's substance is limited to calling people loons really isn't worth the time it is taking me to write this... but there may be others that read your post so I will reply for them.
In any case.... Here's some questions for you...
1. Why didn't you read any of the links that were in my post? Those are the arguments you should be addressing.... and please use facts, not name calling...
2. Why does the Swedish government subsidize milk? You asked that question, why not try to answer it.
3. Why does the industry here in the US have to put on an advertising campaign to promote milk? Another question you asked that you should try to find the answer to.
Why don't you read about BPA before saying it is harmless?
Bisphenol A - Wikipedia
That wikipedia entry is one of many many web pages on the problems with BPA. Read and learn... there are industry sponsored studies that are nothing but junk science, but you have to read and think before you can see it...
Regarding your being vaccinated and having no ill effects (I assume you are referring to thimerosal and autism)... "Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants... the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children."
Be thankful you were not the 1 in 2,500 that were obviously afficted with autism back when you were born. The odds for your children will be 1 in 166.
There are different levels of effects that mercury compounds will have on individuals, from the size of the dose (which is recommended by vaccine manufacturers, but the administrator of the drug can change by design or accident) to the amount of preserviative that is in the vaccine which will vary due to manufacturing processes. Additionally, single doses of the vaccines don't have a preservative in them. While more expensive they are much safer than vials of vaccine where a needle is used to extract it or air guns are used to inject it.
But that you don't have diagnosed autism is not evidence that thimerosal is safe... Since you obviously have trouble comprehending what I have written, that could be how the preservative has affected you neurologically, affecting your reasoning ability. There is no doubt that vaccine administration is the main cause of the EPIDEMIC of autism that has hit American children. Try reading and understanding what is in the following article... Page not found – Rolling Stone
I am offering you the opportunity to grow in knowledge... and be a better human being for it.
Stop the name calling and lack of substance in what you say... take the time to think and reflect and research before you open your mouth...
Edited by michael0156, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by kuresu, posted 09-10-2008 5:08 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by kuresu, posted 09-17-2008 4:09 PM michael0156 has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 79 of 84 (482714)
09-17-2008 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by michael0156
09-17-2008 11:33 AM


Re: Look before you leap
From your photo you don't look healthy
Riight. So a blustery day on top of a mountain pass, on top of not having showered for a day, means I'm unhealthy. By the way, who says that's me in the photo?
Textbook example of leaping before you look.
Why didn't you read any of the links that were in my post? Those are the arguments you should be addressing.... and please use facts, not name calling...
let's see, name calling, name calling. Oh yeah, it can't be calling poeple names if that's what they actually are.
Your first link is a disaster. It's not a link to any article, it's a link to a search on a website, it seems, that is dedicated to proving just how bad milk is. Why should I pay any attention to that? One, you don't provide an actual article. Two, the search site is clearly biased.
The second link requires an e-mail subscription. You shouldn't have to subscribe to find out this information, right? Ever hear of freedom of information?
The third link is questionable. The fact that texas lawmakers (who are in the pockets of big business anyhow) shot down the mandatory vaccination against HPV smacks more of religious bigotry. Many right wing fundies came out against the vaccine for moral reasons--women might have more sex!!!!! True, the article mentions all the problems with the vaccine, but hey, the flu vaccine can actually give you the flu. Texas shot it down for moral reasons, not for health issues or big business issues. Finally, what are you doing talking about vaccines in a thread dedicated to the "dangers of milk"? We try to stay on topic here, but you've managed to fail to do that in your first post here.
Your fourth link is similar to the first two. Poor quality. It is biased and out-of-date.
Why does the Swedish government subsidize milk? You asked that question, why not try to answer it.
That's not how debate works. I know the answer to my question, you have to answer it. Can't throw it right back at me. That's called "evasion".
Why does the industry here in the US have to put on an advertising campaign to promote milk? Another question you asked that you should try to find the answer to.
Read above. You're the one who made the claim that milk is big business. That its in cohorts with the government. You have to substantiate your claim. My question was a way to make you think about your claim. If it is big business, why such an aggressive sales campaign? A different example might help. The Toyota Prius is flying off the lots. No commercials.
Why don't you read about BPA before saying it is harmless?
I don't believe I ever said it was harmless. I compared what you and Agobot are doing to the scares in Teflon and BPa, largely unfounded and ridiculous affairs. Yes, teflon can release chemicals responsible for causing cancer. BPa can lead to health problems (for certain groups). But for both it has to be under unusual to extreme conditions which 99% of the consumer population will not encounter. By the way, I had to deal with the BPa looniness, given that I was working for REI at the time (and I can't wait to hear about how fucked up a company REI supposedly is).
But that you don't have diagnosed autism is not evidence that thimerosal is safe... Since you obviously have trouble comprehending what I have written, that could be how the preservative has affected you neurologically, affecting your reasoning ability
Now we see an insult. My reasoning ability could be affected? You belittle me? After getting all huffy over my calling quacks loons? Hmm. Hmm. Fuck you. You have now made two unsubstantiated insults against me to my none against you (the statement about loons wasn't directed towards you). The first was about my health, when you clearly can have no idea about my health. The second, about my reasoning ability. Please tell me, am I just the 9th least dumb person to graduate from my high school? Am I just one of the 4 least dumb to pass the IB biology exam? Am I just one of the least 5% dumb people in my age group? I guess my IQ (which is a direct measure of your ability to reason) of 130ish is really quite low, huh? You know nothing about me, so how about you keep those insults to yourself?
Stop the name calling and lack of substance in what you say... take the time to think and reflect and research before you open your mouth...
Wise words to follow. Too bad you've proven that you can't.
One final word:
Why didn't you read any of the links that were in my post? Those are the arguments you should be addressing
Read the forum guidelines. We don't debate by links here. We use them as references to our arguments, and so far you've largely been debating by link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by michael0156, posted 09-17-2008 11:33 AM michael0156 has not replied

  
kongstad
Member (Idle past 2870 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 80 of 84 (482744)
09-17-2008 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Agobot
09-12-2008 9:42 AM


Maybe there is something that links mice to humans.
Theres quite a lot of things that link mice to humans, but I believe my question was, what links transgenic mice that overexpress BGH to humans. And what has the study got to do with milk, or BGH given to cows?
Please be specific, the forum rules does not endorse debate by link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Agobot, posted 09-12-2008 9:42 AM Agobot has not replied

  
michael0156
Junior Member (Idle past 3698 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 09-10-2008


Message 81 of 84 (710240)
11-03-2013 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Rahvin
08-31-2008 6:19 AM


Try using reasoning instead & evidence instead of simply demanding evidence and making unsubstantiated claims
YOU - "I've been drinking milk my entire life, and last I checked, I wasn't turning into a girl." & "Human males naturally produce their own estrogen, you know. And females produce testosterone"
So why are we not all androgenous? Of course you know the answer. So why would a male consume estrogen in ANY quantity and what would be the consequences? Important questions to answer... here are some facts to help you.
There is a pill to ward off menopause symptoms, Estroven. It contains phyto-estrogen from soy & is ingested. Would you recommend Estroven for a man to take? How about a child?
The answer should generally be a resounding "NO!"... then why would ANYONE, other than a menopausal woman, eat ANY soy product? Or for that matter, milk... as you seem to be agreeing that there is estrogen in cow's milk. (YOU - "Do you have any evidence that the estrogen in cow milk actually causes feminization in human males?")
How much milk and/or soy a man consumes will determine the effect he experiences... but OBVIOUSLY there will be consequences, depending on the amount of estrogen consumed.
YOU - "Point to a single example where a person developed medical problems due to consumption of dairy products not related to lactose intolerance." And this gem "all I see is the same conspiracy-theorist bullshit about milk that I first saw over on Rense.com, haven of all things paranoid"
When was the last time you complained to your doctor about ANYTHING and he asked you if you were eating food that might be causing your problems (aside from lactose intolerance)?
The average person, doctor, teacher, rocket scientist or religious guru doesn't suspect anything that is considered ordinary or normal in our lives as being the cause of a medical condition, least of all food products that are considered necessary for life & health. Milk falls into this unsuspected-to-be-harmful category in most of our minds.
However mass production and profit has caused a variety of contaminants to enter our food chain, including our cherished milk. rBGH, according to industry sources, is used on 10% of our cattle & the milk from them is co-mingled with conventional cow milk. rBGH is known to affect cow immune systems requiring the use of large amounts of anti-biotics. Unfortunately they are commonly used to prevent infection rather than treat (more time on the milkiing machines = more profit). Over-use of these spectrums of antibiotics produce superbugs & introduce metabolites of these chemicals into the milk & meat.
Cattle still get mastitis, despite the ongoing multi-antibiotic barrage, further contaminating milk until the infections are discovered & the cattle taken out of milk production, IF they are taken out.
Factory farm conditions confine cattle to a stall & turn them into an extension of the milking machine, stressing the animals & further degrading their health & the quality of the milk they produce.
Their feed is not a natural balance of whole grasses and grains they would normally forage for. Included in many brands of cheap (but FDA/EPA/USDA "approved") feed is chicken manure, usually from factory farm chickens that have been fed slaughterhouse remnants, including cattle blood (unhealthy chickens deficating into the mouths of the cattle we eat of & drink from). Ahhh, Utopia!!
YOU - "Do you have any evidence that the estrogen in cow milk actually causes feminization in human males?" You answered your own question when you said - "Human males naturally produce their own estrogen, you know. And females produce testosterone"... of course you know that the quantities are very disimilar in males & females leading the French to observe "vive la diffrence" Why change the balance you already have? Do you know any males who have been diagnosed with an estrogen deficiency?
YOU - "Any evidence that milk causes breast or prostate cancer" - Really? You asked this question? And then labeled is as being "from conspiracy-theory websites" - Estrogen is not only ties to increased breat cancer it is also proved to increase metastasis (spreading beast cancer throughout the body). I'm not going to investigate your prostate cancer anti-claims as what I have already demonstrated shows YOU are the one "pulling things out of your ass" & "wearing a tinfoil hat"
Try researching and thinking before you spew... or did you know what you were posting was wrong & unsubstantiable?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Rahvin, posted 08-31-2008 6:19 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-04-2013 10:48 AM michael0156 has not replied
 Message 83 by ringo, posted 11-04-2013 11:33 AM michael0156 has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 84 (710294)
11-04-2013 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by michael0156
11-03-2013 3:38 PM


then why would ANYONE, other than a menopausal woman, eat ANY soy product? Or for that matter, milk...
It tastes good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by michael0156, posted 11-03-2013 3:38 PM michael0156 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 83 of 84 (710303)
11-04-2013 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by michael0156
11-03-2013 3:38 PM


michael0156 writes:
Try using reasoning instead & evidence instead of simply demanding evidence and making unsubstantiated claims
The evidence suggests that we are evolved organisms. Thus, we can reason that anything we eat will have some good and some bad consequences. There is no "perfect food" for an imperfect body.
The bottom line is that we drink milk because of the benefits and despite the drawbacks, the same as any other food.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by michael0156, posted 11-03-2013 3:38 PM michael0156 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 84 of 84 (710306)
11-04-2013 11:58 AM


This thread is five years old.
Go have a nice big glass of milk and half a dozen oreos.
Anyone who does not think that is good is CRAY-CRAY.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

  
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