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Author Topic:   What Is The Holy Spirit
ringo
Member
Posts: 19294
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 31 of 176 (710970)
11-13-2013 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
11-12-2013 6:12 PM


Re: Who Has The Spirit?
Phat writes:

Some believe that all humans have the awareness. The spark. The desire. Others believe that only "believers" get this ability.


quote:
Galatians 5:13-18 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

"Walking" in the Spirit is an action, serving one another. Those who believe in serving one another are walking in the Spirit. Those who believe in something else may not be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 11-12-2013 6:12 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Omnivorous, posted 11-13-2013 7:04 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 1:33 PM ringo has responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 669 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(3)
Message 32 of 176 (710995)
11-13-2013 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
11-13-2013 12:27 PM


Re: Who Has The Spirit?
ringo writes:

Those who believe in serving one another are walking in the Spirit. Those who believe in something else may not be.

Tell it like it is.

If every believer taught by her religion could live out 'Be good to each other," we could transform the world.

Lately, I hear more of that spirit from the Pope and pagans than from all of Protestant-dom, and more from secularists and atheists than believers.

Funny, that.

Edited by Omnivorous, : Hard post to write without scare quotes...


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 11-13-2013 12:27 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 12:59 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15696
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 33 of 176 (883416)
12-06-2020 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
11-12-2013 11:00 AM


Re: Likely Or Not?
Here is one apologists take on the Holy Spirit amongst "Believers".

For thos not inclined to watch the video, David Diga Hernandez lists 7 signs that one has the Holy Spirit.
1) Confidence In Salvation
2) Godly Character
3)Power & Passion for Evangelism
4)The Gift of Tongues
5)Love for Jesus
6)Knowledge of Truth (Absolute...not Relative)
7) Holiness(sounds just like #2)

We can discuss the merits of these. though Diga Hernandez makes a good case it can be challenged and elaborated. Surely if we collectively believe that the Holy Spirit (aka GOD) exists, we can come to a consensus.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-12-2013 11:00 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 12-06-2020 3:46 PM Phat has responded
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 12-07-2020 11:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 34 of 176 (883419)
12-06-2020 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
12-06-2020 3:21 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
Only an utter ***** would make such a list of absurdities.

1) Confidence In Salvation
2) Godly Character
3)Power & Passion for Evangelism
4)The Gift of Tongues
5)Love for Jesus
6)Knowledge of Truth (Absolute...not Relative)
7) Holiness(sounds just like #2)

Is there ANY evidence that any of those items other then the very first are even possible?

And the first is just stupid. It is typical of every believer in every religion but as pointed out in the Book of the Dead no ones knows until they are dead and judged.

Hell is filled with those who were Confident In Salvation.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 12-06-2020 3:21 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 12:33 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19294
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 35 of 176 (883424)
12-07-2020 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
12-06-2020 3:21 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
Phat writes:

7) Holiness(sounds just like #2)


Indeed it does - but 7 is a magic number.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 12-06-2020 3:21 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15696
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 36 of 176 (883425)
12-07-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
12-06-2020 3:46 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
I would argue that love for Jesus is the main issue. Even Jesus said that there were two commandments on which all of the law and prophets are encapsulated within.
1) Love God.
2)Love others. Loving Jesus is in effect loving God.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 12-06-2020 3:46 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 12-07-2020 12:36 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 37 of 176 (883426)
12-07-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
12-07-2020 12:33 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
All of the Goats loved Jesus and look at where they ended up.

None of the Sheep loved Jesus and look where they ended up.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 12:33 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 1:21 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15696
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 38 of 176 (883427)
12-07-2020 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Omnivorous
11-13-2013 7:04 PM


Re: Who Has The Spirit?
As we revisited this old topic I saw your name...and a good post, by the way. How are you and how have you been? I miss hearing from you.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Omnivorous, posted 11-13-2013 7:04 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15696
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 39 of 176 (883428)
12-07-2020 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
12-07-2020 12:36 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
jar writes:

All of the Goats loved Jesus and look at where they ended up.

None of the Sheep loved Jesus and look where they ended up.

Many of the goats fawned over Jesus, bragging that they knew Him but not having a relationship or as you would emphasize...doing for the least of these. Their relationship with Jesus was superficial. Other goats willfully denied Jesus though they knew of Him.
The sheep may or may not have been aware of the presence of Jesus...some, like you, kept questioning it...but they did for the least of these and thus had works credited as righteousness. Many of them were atheists. Yes, I understand the concept.

Edited by Phat, : spelling


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 12-07-2020 12:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 12-07-2020 1:24 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 40 of 176 (883429)
12-07-2020 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
12-07-2020 1:21 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
Who posted "I would argue that love for Jesus is the main issue."?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 1:21 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 1:36 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15696
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 41 of 176 (883430)
12-07-2020 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
11-13-2013 12:27 PM


Re: Who Has The Spirit?
ringo writes:

"Walking" in the Spirit is an action, serving one another. Those who believe in serving one another are walking in the Spirit. Those who believe in something else may not be.

I cant argue with you there. I just get annoyed when you claim
quote:
I don't believe that Jesus, the human, existed - because there is no solid evidence that he existed. I think the stories about him are most likely based on an amalgamation of preachers who wandered Palestine in the 1st century - like Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry was based on real-life evangelists.
I sometimes think that you let your logical mind override your intuition and inner spirit. For some reason you despise religion. I suppose that you and jar have a case that by loving and serving others we are loving and serving Jesus....but He does exist. Just sayin.

And don't come back at me declaring that I don't do what He says. I most certainly do. Hang with me for a week and see.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 11-13-2013 12:27 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 12-08-2020 11:13 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15696
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 42 of 176 (883431)
12-07-2020 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
12-07-2020 1:24 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
jar writes:

Who posted "I would argue that love for Jesus is the main issue."?

I did, but as you see in my reply to ringo, I elaborated that you and he likely have a point in that by serving (and loving) others we are in effect loving Jesus. I just cant figure out why so many people can deny that He even existed while doing what He said to do, but people are funny at times.

I might add that I strongly feel that the supernatural will come out of the closet in the next twenty years and people will see "unexplained" events which I believe will be connected to this. The real and the fake will share the stage globally as society attempts to explain what is happening. And you sciuence types will sweep the belief under the rug, claiming no objective evidence...little realizing that old Phat was right all along and that there is in effect a spiritual reality.

Though I must honestly admit that I would be disappointed...mad even...if I was wrong. Gods presence on earth should be more than simply humans feeding other humans. God is bigger than our collective imagination and conception of reality.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 12-07-2020 1:24 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 12-07-2020 3:32 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 43 of 176 (883432)
12-07-2020 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
12-07-2020 1:36 PM


Re: Likely Or Not?
Phat writes:

I might add that I strongly feel that the supernatural will come out of the closet in the next twenty years and people will see "unexplained" events which I believe will be connected to this.

Again Phat that is just a silly statement unless you can provide a way to test the unexplained event that would return a verifiable and repeatable answer of "supernatural".

So far no one has EVER provided a model, means, method, process or procedure that could return such an answer.

Phat writes:

And you sciuence types will sweep the belief under the rug, claiming no objective evidence...little realizing that old Phat was right all along and that there is in effect a spiritual reality.

Yet the reality will remain that we are right until and unless you provide the test method.

Phat writes:

Though I must honestly admit that I would be disappointed...mad even...if I was wrong.

Fortunately reality doesn't care whether we get mad.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 1:36 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 12-08-2020 3:03 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19294
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 44 of 176 (883436)
12-08-2020 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
12-07-2020 1:33 PM


Re: Who Has The Spirit?
Phat writes:

I sometimes think that you let your logical mind override your intuition and inner spirit.


YES! YES! YES! Of course I do! Who wouldn't? What's the point of being homo sapiens if we don't use our sapient abilities? If you rely on your intuition, you might as well be a cow.

Phat writes:

For some reason you despise religion.


No mystery. I despise what is despicable. (That isn't necessarily all religion.)

Phat writes:

And don't come back at me declaring that I don't do what He says.


But you don't do what He says. You even deny that He says it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 12-07-2020 1:33 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 12-08-2020 11:33 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15696
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 45 of 176 (883438)
12-08-2020 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
12-08-2020 11:13 AM


Doing What Jesus Says
ringo writes:

But you don't do what He says. You even deny that He says it.

Liar.
First of all it is hubris for you to even say such a thing. You limit God to a character in a book (or perhaps think that He speaks through your rational brain). You have no idea what I do.
Assuming that I dont do what he says based on your warped interpretation of what I have written, you need to elaborate.

Of course I'm guessing that you will claim that *you* presented a plain scripture as to what the book says and I challenged it...in which case I was challenging your brain and not the character in the book itself.

Needless to say, your interpretation and my interpretation don't always agree.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 12-08-2020 11:13 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 12-08-2020 12:02 PM Phat has responded

  
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