The not so distant star light problem

Yes. Not only reached the earth, which only takes a few minutes even now, but the way it originally developed within the sun at creation. Which may not be the way it works now, in the way God sustains it, but only in the way he created it. Yes, I disagree with the entire tone of your OP, including this line;

quote:

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you cannot shorten the time required to fit the text of the Bible.

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You can, if the supernatural is considered. Exactly, it's possible to understand the fact that something happened, without knowing the details of how it happened. A person can use a flashlight without knowing exactly how it works. An atheist can believe abiogenesis happened without knowing how it worked. "Long" isn't a consideration if it happened in a time realm that is outside of the simple, one dimension time frame that humans know about. Yes. I guess you got me there. I would think maybe the thread starter would have the burden of sharing his worldview so readers would better know where he's coming from in the discussion he's starting, but these are after all the science forums. Secularism/atheism owns them. But there are many threads started here from an atheist viewpoint, who's starter claims to be a "mainstream" Christian, not the 0.00001% of wackos like me who actually believe what the word of God says.But you do have my answer as to what my beliefs are. I don't need any help. My points are made, I'm almost done in this thread. I don't consider the time frame to be identifiable. I guess I disagree with AIG slightly on that one. I think (in some cases) we have to stop short of trying to identify times for religious purposes, or try to claim that early humans and dinosours lived at exactly the same time, as I think AIG does. I think it's a mistake to go out on that limb. Could be, but I think it's clearer that man bends over backwards to dig up false evidence. Or tries too hard to put God to the test, something frowned upon by the one book of the Bible that the scientific community dislikes the most, Genesis. This is a result of "putting God to the test", or "leaning on our own understanding".

Let me go through it in another way then, which sums up my entire position. It does not matter what we understand about physics or any other form of science, it is all completely disconnectable from the supernatural way God created all of reality. If science finds anything that it claims has the ability to falsify a supernatural act, then science is thinking higher of itself than it ought to think, and is no longer a disinterested pursuit of knowledge.

We can't? People do it all the time, some people take such a keen interest in it that it comsumes most of their entire lives. Billy Graham, Charles Spurgeon come to mind. The Bible is very complex, in its history, and in its prescription for living. If someone's talent is in doing something besides spending a lot of time studying it, it can be comparitively simply applied to their lives. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that God communicates with us, most in science don't. The Bible is a very thorough, foolproof way for God to communicate with us. It's the only way he communicates with us, if he did it in any other way, the world, and it's view of him, would be completely different from what they are. Today's science education establishment is masterful at catching students at the perfect critical time in their lives, and indoctrinating them into non-religion. Remember, to a small child, the only reason he cannot do some things that he'd like to do is because his parents won't let him. Much later, as an adult, he (hopefully / usually) realizes that there are common sense reasons for not doing something that may seem good (pleasurable) at first glance. The dangerous period is when a child learns that there are limits to parental control, and how to avoid them, yet without nearly enough life experience to know the wisdom of avoiding doing certain things. Roughly the middle school years, though they vary from child to child. The time when "honor thy father and mother", becomes something to seek reasons to circumvent. This is when the scientific community, through education, finds future atheist citizens, to support the political ambitions of the scientific community. I'll go do that now, I should be able to get it in, but high winds are coming, and if it gets much worse I may have to unplug this unit before I get it done.