Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Conversations with God
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 55 of 530 (710950)
11-13-2013 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Jon
11-13-2013 8:37 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
It is the holder of the belief that deserves respect. After all, some people think the Koran is a Holy Book...I certainly wouldnt use one to prop up the uneven leg on the couch were they to be likely to drop by....
Plus i get tired of these same worn out arguments that require evidence for belief. Of course, I am free to avoid forums, I suppose....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Jon, posted 11-13-2013 8:37 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by jar, posted 11-13-2013 9:05 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 530 (710953)
11-13-2013 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by jar
11-13-2013 9:05 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Salvation was a free gift. We humans certainly didn't earn it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by jar, posted 11-13-2013 9:05 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 11-13-2013 9:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 60 by ramoss, posted 11-13-2013 7:41 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 62 of 530 (711117)
11-15-2013 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by AZPaul3
11-14-2013 12:04 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
One of the most important lessons that any human can learn is humility and obedience...not to a human con man but to a Creator Who knows what is the better choice.
Everyone always points to how religion has been used to manipulate...an observation which confirms the base nature of humanity, by the way. Getting rid of religion wont stop human greed and lust for power.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by AZPaul3, posted 11-14-2013 12:04 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by ringo, posted 11-15-2013 11:00 AM Phat has replied
 Message 64 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:34 AM Phat has replied
 Message 67 by AZPaul3, posted 11-15-2013 11:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 530 (711164)
11-15-2013 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by jar
11-15-2013 11:34 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
jar writes:
How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?
Have you ever really prayed...apart from reciting some pre written prayer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:48 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 68 of 530 (711268)
11-16-2013 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by AZPaul3
11-15-2013 11:17 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Obedience is another matter. One can be forced into obedience by a stick or one can comply in respect. Your god's sticks are neither long enough nor strong enough to reach me and the vile nature and evil attributes ascribed to your god in his (supposedly) own books defy any level of respect from a decent man.
You can't use the excuse that "my Gods" attributes and character are limited to books.
Thus, you wont get away with the simple excuse that you "disagree" with the books.
You might argue that as of today you dont have enough respect to worship or acknowledge Him. I would highly doubt that He would smite an honest man, long stick or not.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by AZPaul3, posted 11-15-2013 11:17 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by AZPaul3, posted 11-17-2013 7:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 530 (711269)
11-16-2013 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jar
11-15-2013 11:48 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
jar writes:
I ask often "What should I do?"
But then I test the answer using logic, reason and reality.
How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?
Im all for questioning and testing. I don't check my brain at any door, but I also don't throw away gods and scriptures and bow at the altar of logic, reason, and reality. (Unless that logic, reason, and reality emanates from Him.) How do I know its Him? Good question, grasshopper!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:48 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 11-16-2013 4:27 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 70 of 530 (711270)
11-16-2013 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by ringo
11-15-2013 11:00 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Ringo writes:
If you're humble, how do you know who to obey?
Hint: Its not the same guy that you "obey" when you are proud and haughty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by ringo, posted 11-15-2013 11:00 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 11-17-2013 2:07 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 530 (711295)
11-16-2013 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
11-16-2013 4:27 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
jar writes:
How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?
This is the question of the moment, apparantly...seeing as how you keep repeating it. If one asks themselves in solitude, the short answer is that we ourselves are responsible for whom we obey---and whether we were obeying our own conscience, something that we decided was the right answer...or an inner unction(not quite an audible voice) we have to know that we are sane and are choosing the best option. Would we dare con ourselves?? (still thinking and pondering....)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 11-16-2013 4:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 11-17-2013 9:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 76 of 530 (712196)
11-28-2013 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
11-17-2013 2:07 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Ringo writes:
I don't see how humility and obedience go together.
Jesus is a perfect example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 11-17-2013 2:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 11-28-2013 8:26 PM Phat has replied
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 11-29-2013 11:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 78 of 530 (712211)
11-29-2013 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by jar
11-28-2013 8:26 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Both are the same person.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 11-28-2013 8:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by jar, posted 11-29-2013 8:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 81 of 530 (825970)
12-20-2017 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
11-11-2013 5:23 PM


Re: Doubt is healthy...keep doubting
Faith writes:
There's nothing "healthy" about doubt, nothing admirable either; doubt is simply our natural state, a legacy from the Fall. You all keep trying to make it into a virtue it just isn't.
Is doubt the same as questioning? Are you saying that for a believer to be strongest is when they dont question and doubt?
Would you say that God, as you know Him, would rather have us simply ignore any questions and/or doubts and simply believe?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 11-11-2013 5:23 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 12-20-2017 2:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 83 of 530 (884463)
02-20-2021 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
12-31-2006 12:51 PM


Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat in 2008 writes:
To the average American, Protestant Charismatic Christianity is that which is broadcast daily by the Televangelists such as Joel Osteen and Benny Hinn. The radio preachers are better, but by and large, the message that we see resembles more of a huge infomercial, a warped prosperity gospel, and a form of self congratulatory exclusivity.
Were Jesus to return tomorrow, would He find contemporary public Christianity to be applauded or would He see it as reprehensible?
Revising this topic, I would now say:
The average American,should they choose to embrace Christianity, has many options and flavors open to them. Though Joel Osteen and Benny Hinn are still around, they have been discredited as serious contenders for the best messages (or examples) marketed.
Television and the internet have their share of marketers, and HOW to hear Gods voice - Is this MY thoughts or God speaking!? isw a good talk and sermon regarding how to test the spirits regarding the possibility of Gods impression.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 12-31-2006 12:51 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by dwise1, posted 02-20-2021 8:09 PM Phat has replied
 Message 92 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2021 3:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 86 of 530 (884466)
02-21-2021 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by dwise1
02-20-2021 8:09 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
You've been drinking again, haven't you. There is no other reason why you would react so strongly And for the record, no--I'm not going to say in my own words what the speaker can and does say far more eloquently. If you angrily refuse to peruse it, its your loss. Even at your age you can still learn something. Chill out.
Edited by Phat, : weighing my response to be more polite

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by dwise1, posted 02-20-2021 8:09 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by nwr, posted 02-21-2021 10:49 AM Phat has replied
 Message 91 by dwise1, posted 02-21-2021 3:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 89 of 530 (884477)
02-21-2021 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by jar
02-21-2021 12:14 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
You guys are hopeless. professing yourselves wise, you are but fools. Reality will show you what all of the "evidence" that you worship has failed to do. Even then, you likely will deny the truth.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by jar, posted 02-21-2021 12:14 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by nwr, posted 02-21-2021 5:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 94 by ringo, posted 02-22-2021 11:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 96 by Stile, posted 02-23-2021 11:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 90 of 530 (884478)
02-21-2021 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by nwr
02-21-2021 10:49 AM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
nwr writes:
However, communication via youtube video seems a horribly ineffective method, in addition to wasting a lot of time.
Sure, I watch some videos when I think I can learn from them. But when the title suggests Christian Apologetics, I will give it a pass.
Let me get your beliefs clear. Are you of similar mind as jar, who states that there has never been any evidence that God can talk to us or that we can listen and hear Him?
Furthermore, are you, like jar, unconcerned about it?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by nwr, posted 02-21-2021 10:49 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024