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Author Topic:   Peanut Gallery for Great debate: radiocarbon dating, Mindspawn and Coyote/RAZD
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 305 (711354)
11-17-2013 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Percy
11-16-2013 8:01 AM


Re: Lake Suigetsu Volcanic Layers
I thought Mindspawn might become convinced that varve layers are predominantly annual if ...
Hope springs eternal in the human breast, I guess.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Percy, posted 11-16-2013 8:01 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Coyote, posted 11-17-2013 10:26 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 77 of 305 (711356)
11-17-2013 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by NoNukes
11-17-2013 9:51 PM


Early summary?
I thought Mindspawn might become convinced that varve layers are predominantly annual if ...
Hope springs eternal in the human breast, I guess.
My assessment of the situation is that Mindspawn cannot accept radiometric dating, or the results it produces, under any circumstances, because if he were to do so his entire world view would be compromised.
This is why he has to find objections to all of these dating methods--that allows him to keep his world view intact.
It doesn't matter that those objections are outlandish, or contradicted by a massive amount of evidence. That he is able to produce those objections is sufficient for his purposes. Just doing so lets him maintain his beliefs.
I suspect that the magnificent post that RAZD did in the Great Debate thread will get nowhere. The points he raised will be ignored, denied, or obfuscated, or just drowned under an onslaught of "what-ifs" without any supporting evidence.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 11-17-2013 9:51 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 305 (711357)
11-17-2013 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by JonF
11-15-2013 12:19 PM


I still don't see how he could have gleaned a hint from that paper, which is solely about using non-14C results to calibrate 14C results.
Look at the bold text in RAZD's message 64 and squint real hard while clicking your heels. When I do that, I can almost see mindspawn's point.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by JonF, posted 11-15-2013 12:19 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by JonF, posted 11-18-2013 12:01 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 82 by JonF, posted 11-18-2013 1:20 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Atheos canadensis
Member (Idle past 2997 days)
Posts: 141
Joined: 11-12-2013


Message 79 of 305 (711364)
11-17-2013 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by NoNukes
11-17-2013 9:04 PM


It was indeed a magnificent and thorough post. It seems like RAZD has soundly refuted all of Mindspawn's major objections. But I agree the he is unlikely to see it that way and will have to be beaten into submission over the course of several more posts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by NoNukes, posted 11-17-2013 9:04 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 80 of 305 (711407)
11-18-2013 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by NoNukes
11-17-2013 10:30 PM


Look at the bold text in RAZD's message 64 and squint real hard while clicking your heels.
Message 64 where?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 81 of 305 (711411)
11-18-2013 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by JonF
11-18-2013 12:01 PM



This message is a reply to:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 82 of 305 (711412)
11-18-2013 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by NoNukes
11-17-2013 10:30 PM


Ah, now I see.
But I don't. No way can that be interpreted as calibrating U-Th dating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by NoNukes, posted 11-17-2013 10:30 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 11-18-2013 1:57 PM JonF has replied
 Message 88 by NoNukes, posted 11-19-2013 8:12 AM JonF has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 305 (711415)
11-18-2013 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by JonF
11-18-2013 1:20 PM


Are your eyes shut tight and are you repeating "I do believe in fairies"?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by JonF, posted 11-18-2013 1:20 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by JonF, posted 11-18-2013 2:15 PM jar has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 84 of 305 (711416)
11-18-2013 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
11-18-2013 1:57 PM


Wut?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 11-18-2013 1:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 11-18-2013 2:18 PM JonF has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 85 of 305 (711417)
11-18-2013 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by JonF
11-18-2013 2:15 PM


Do you want Tinker Bells light to go out?
Shame on you!

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by JonF, posted 11-18-2013 2:15 PM JonF has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 86 of 305 (711433)
11-18-2013 8:04 PM


Magnificent, again!
Another magnificent post by RAZD.
Message 25
Now we'll see if Mindspawn wants to discuss radiocarbon dating, continue on with more rabbit holes and what-ifs, or makes himself scarce.
If the former, I'll be happy to rejoin that thread.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 87 of 305 (711443)
11-19-2013 7:06 AM


Mindspawn writes:
However I believe these regions were in dryer environments in the past.
Aha, there it is! Backed into a corner, out of ammo, floodlights on, he's forced to play the last ditch, creationist catchall defence:
"It was [dryer] then"
I love a happy ending.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 305 (711449)
11-19-2013 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by JonF
11-18-2013 1:20 PM


But I don't. No way can that be interpreted as calibrating U-Th dating.
Of course not. It can only by misinterpretted as calibrating U-Th dating.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by JonF, posted 11-18-2013 1:20 PM JonF has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 305 (711452)
11-19-2013 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Tangle
11-19-2013 7:06 AM


mindspawn writes:
However I believe these regions were in dryer environments in the past.
Tangle writes:
Aha, there it is! Backed into a corner, out of ammo, floodlights on, he's forced to play the last ditch, creationist catchall defence:
But notice the skillful avoidance of the words "what if". Notice that is belief is of something never expressed until his original idea was trashed. Finally, notice that he has never provided any evidence to a link to rainfall anyway.
And then, what about U-Th dating. Absent some explanation for that, aren't these other "I believes" or "what ifs" moot?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Tangle, posted 11-19-2013 7:06 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 90 of 305 (711466)
11-19-2013 9:59 AM


In two replies Mindspun has failed to lay a glove on RAZD.
His posts are a long on speculation and wishful thinking and short on evidence. Particularly, they are short on evidence that would contradict what RAZD has posted. He has nothing but "what-ifs" as usual.
Speculating on what rainfall may or may not have done is no substitute for explaining some reason why all of those different materials show the same patterns, which together make up the calibration curve.

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Diomedes, posted 11-19-2013 3:23 PM Coyote has not replied

  
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