Was Jesus' crucifixion all part of God's plan?

Did God plan the whole thing? Was the life and times of Jesus, including his death and the betrayal by Judas all part of God's plan?(According to those who believe in these stories, that is.)Edited by faitheist, : No reason given.

Interesting response. You seem to be saying that you accept the story that Jesus was god incarnate, but then you suggest later on that perhaps the story isn't even true.And maybe you can explain what you mean 'for our salvation'. Why, if you don't believe the usual 'he died for our sins', is he our salvation? There have been many people in history who were good, compassionate, helpful people.Edited by faitheist, : Typo

I'd forgotten that bit, about God creating Lucifer.So, Phat, you think it was all pre-planned. In which case, there really is no reason to see the crucifixion of Jesus as anything but good, purposeful and right. All of it was planned, by God, for the good of mankind. Judas was just following the script, as were the Romans and the Jews. All the players were acting out the roles God wrote for them.Do you not find that an odd story? Doesn't it sort of negate the whole thing? Why wouldn't an all powerful God simply make us good instead of going to all that trouble?

I see no reason to invoke a god where it comes to failure or success. I'm a non believer an yet I struggle to do my best every day. I see no reason to invoke a god in any aspect of life on Earth.

Non believers don't have to invoke gods, Phat, that's the whole point. I seem to be doing OK in managing my life, and in any case, your god thinks you should struggle in order to build your character. I do that on my own with great ease.Funny you should mention love, because that's actually what do I believe in. But again, there is no need to invoke gods to understand love or hate, for that matter.

Yes, I agree. So why do you presuppose an existence? Why, as you mentioned earlier on, do you want to be controlled by a superior spirit? Or have you told me already: Mother/father issues.